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View Poll Results: What do you think of the trade after a week of getting your head around it?
Love it, think Lucic is an upgrade 59 11.75%
Like it, clears some cap space even if Lucic is no better 165 32.87%
Indifferent, both teams getting a failed project 166 33.07%
Dislike it, Neal needed another year to bounce back 85 16.93%
Hate it, Neal will be better in Edmonton 27 5.38%
Voters: 502. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-22-2019, 02:40 PM   #2201
Oling_Roachinen
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Meh, Marleau was similar except just one season left with 4.25M (3M in bonus) and a cap-hit of 6.25M.

It still took the Leafs a 1st round pick to get rid of him.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:53 PM   #2202
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I'm reconsidering a James Neal buy out as an option in light of some of the contracts that have been signed in the last month.

If the Flames had bought out Neal and Stone during the June buyout window, their combined amount that would count against Calgary's cap would be just under 3.1 per. That would save the Flames just under 6.2 per year in cap space this year.

Sure, the combined cap hits of Brouwer, Stone and Neal would be about 4.5 million for this year and next year, but you've partially plugged a leak and you didn't have to work anything out with anyone else and all it really costs you is cash and a bit of budget space.

But your opportunity to improve the team I think is greater while at the same time removing some distractions.

I dunno. With Neal the hope was maybe he'll be a goal scoring top 9 player, but adding Lucic is like actually committing to paying a 4th line guy 3-4 times more than he should be.

Now you've potentially made your chief rival stronger and only marginally, maybe, upgraded your situation.

It just stinks.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:10 PM   #2203
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The Flames also just as much sent a $5.75M boat anchor to their chief rival who are now paying 5.75 for Neal and 750k for Lucic.

Lots of optimism that Neal will bounce back in Edmonton but I think this is Brouwer all over again. He will probably be better than he was last year but will he be worth the 6.5M they are paying him and Lucic to not play here?
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:14 PM   #2204
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NMC notwithstanding, the Flames could retain 50% on Lucic's remaining contract (see Dubynk in 2014)

Which would result in:

2.625M cap for 4 years, 7M in actual cash spread out over 4 years to Calgary
2.625M cap for 4 years, 7M in actual cash spread out over 4 years to Team A
0.750M cap for 4 years, 2M in actual cash spread out over 4 years to Edmonton (and an additional 3M they just gave in bonus)

I think there's a number of teams that would be willing to take Lucic on at an average of 1.75M in actual cash and 2.625M in cap hit. Reaves' deal pretty much sets a precedence for teams willing to pay this.

Next year, after the bonus is paid out a retained salary transaction of 50% would mean the team acquiring Lucic would be on the hook for 5M spread over 3 years.

If the concern comes simply from a Neal buyout, this seems to be a better alternative. Saves a lot of actual cash (7M vs 15.33M), barely an additional yearly cap-hit (2.63M vs 1.9M) and would be four years sooner off the books.

Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 07-22-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:22 PM   #2205
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D'arcy currently getting in a fight with David Staples on Twitter over the Ryan Lambert article and the particulars of Corsi. Staples putting his head in the sand
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:25 PM   #2206
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
If the Flames had bought out Neal and Stone during the June buyout window, their combined amount that would count against Calgary's cap would be just under 3.1 per. That would save the Flames just under 6.2 per year in cap space this year.
You are assuming that the Flames owners would approve of that many millions being thrown away.

I assume if that could have been authorized, it would have been done.

The Flames just made a trade that many (initially) considered questionable at best and saved about $10M in real dollars in doing so.

I doubt they were going to pay $15M for Neal to go away.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:27 PM   #2207
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Can’t recall the last time the Flames were so overwhelmingly roasted by the media over a trade. Doug’s Gilmour?
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:27 PM   #2208
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Guy on the radio made a great point...next summer Lucic Only has like 9M in actual salary to be paid over 3 seasons. Perfect contact for some cheap team trying to hit the cap floor.

I wouldn't be shocked if Lucic is totally off the books next summer.
Assuming Lucic would consent to being traded to a cap floor team like Ottawa. I'd assume he'd prefer the buyout and become a UFA.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:28 PM   #2209
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Can’t recall the last time the Flames were so overwhelmingly roasted by the media over a trade. Doug’s Gilmour?
Has to be the Dion trade, no? They haven't made a move that requires this much rationalizing since the ROR offersheet
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:30 PM   #2210
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The Engelland signing was pretty reviled
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Holland made transactions which have been a net positive for the Oilers, including his massive, massive, massive Grade A trade of Milan Lucic to the Calgary Flames for James Neal.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:31 PM   #2211
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Assuming Lucic would consent to being traded to a cap floor team like Ottawa. I'd assume he'd prefer the buyout and become a UFA.
If the choice is to collect my $9M in Arizona vs a 1 year 1M deal wherever, I'd take the desert. Dude has his championship.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:32 PM   #2212
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The Engelland signing was pretty reviled
And that didn't turn out so terribly. Lucic just needs one good photo of him teeing off on two helpless Canucks and we can rename a street for him.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:33 PM   #2213
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen View Post
NMC notwithstanding, the Flames could retain 50% on Lucic's remaining contract (see Dubynk in 2014)

Which would result in:

2.625M cap for 4 years, 7M in actual cash over 4 years to Calgary
2.625M cap for 4 years, 7M in actual cash over 4 years to Team A
0.750M cap for 4 years, 2M in actual cash over 4 years to Edmonton (and an additional 3M they just gave in bonus)

I think there's a number of teams that would be willing to take Lucic on at an average of 1.75M in actual cash and 2.625M in cap hit.

Next year, after the bonus is paid out a retained salary transaction of 50% would mean the team acquiring Lucic would be on the hook for 5M spread over 3 years.

If the concern comes simply from a Neal buyout, this seems to be a better alternative. Saves a lot of actual cash (7M vs 15.33M), barely an additional yearly cap-hit (2.63M vs 1.9M) and would be four years sooner off the books.
You are right, with the oilers on the hook for 12.5%, instead of a buyout retaining a portion doesn't make this as bad. Like you said, with the real cash already paid out it isn't as bad of an anchor contract. I think the reason this was always so bad for Edmonton, is any way you sliced it they were going to have to retain a percentage. I know the 3.5M that Reaves signed for was brought up and people mentioned that they would rather have Lucic at that same cost, It would only take Calgary retaining around 30%.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:36 PM   #2214
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Wait... I thought you could only retain 50% of the total contract value (combined). So the Flames can only retain 37.5% of the AAV (2.25M) if they were to trade Lucic on. Is that incorrect?
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:39 PM   #2215
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Can’t recall the last time the Flames were so overwhelmingly roasted by the media over a trade. Doug’s Gilmour?
What do you expect? The national media love the Oilers.

That's the one thing the Oilers are good at, pampering the media.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:42 PM   #2216
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What do you expect? The national media love the Oilers.

That's the one thing the Oilers are good at, pampering the media.
On that note, I can't wait to hear Ron Maclean's poetic take on this trade. Heck give him a glass of wine, a beer...
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:42 PM   #2217
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Wait... I thought you could only retain 50% of the total contract value (combined). So the Flames can only retain 37.5% of the AAV (2.25M) if they were to trade Lucic on. Is that incorrect?
I think you are right, 50% of the total contract so 2.25M would be the most the Flames could retain. Lucic at 3M is a lot more palatable if worst comes to worst.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:47 PM   #2218
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Dubynk was making 3.5M in 2014.

Oilers retained 50% when he was traded to Nashville. Each team was on the hook for 1.75M.

Nashville than traded him to Montreal, retaining 50% of his remaining (so 25% of the original) at 0.875M. Montreal buried him for no cap-hit (as it was below the cutoff). Nashville took 0.875M on the cap, Oilers took 1.75M on the cap. So the Flames could retain an additional 50% of Lucic's contract.

I do note that the Flames, if they were trade him at 50% next off-season after the bonus is paid out, would mean the acquiring team would actually only be on the hook for 4.375M (not 5M) over 3 years, or just under 1.5M AAV as I forgot to account for the Oiler's retention in that last post.

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Old 07-22-2019, 03:49 PM   #2219
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So I'm over 100 pages late to the party here.. The way that I look at it is that Neal was a healthy scratch in the most important game of the season last year. It was unlikely that he was going to be on the team if at all possible. I'm completely spit balling but I would think that Lucic would have been far more likely to make an impact in the playoffs than Neal. That is not to mention that I believe Lucic will have an impact on more than one game in the regular season which by my count was the total noticeable games by Neal as a flame.

I still think that Neal has more potential upside in the goal scoring department than Lucic but likely impacts far fewer games overall. I am cautiously optomistic that this is an upgrade and am willing to wait and see what comes of it.

Additionally the one reason that I was worried about playing Vegas last year was Reeves ability to change the way our top line and dmen played with two or three heavy shifts. If Lucic can have even half of that effect on our opponents half of the time we are a better team as a result.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:51 PM   #2220
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D'arcy currently getting in a fight with David Staples on Twitter over the Ryan Lambert article and the particulars of Corsi. Staples putting his head in the sand
Get him, Bingo!
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