Poll: Hearts and Minds - Who is winning the Arena PR battle so far?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Richard Peddie supposedly either running for mayor of Toronto or looking for a progressive candidate to back and former Leaf CEO:

link

Former Leafs CEO Chimes In On Flames Arena Situation
SEPTEMBER 16, 2017 AT 9:23 AM CDT | BY MIKE FURLANO LEAVE A COMMENT

Former MLSE president and CEO Richard Peddie chimed in on the ongoing Calgary Flames arena saga yesterday. Peddie—who once ran the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors, Toronto FC, and the AHL Toronto Marlies—tweeted that Toronto’s arena was 100% privately financed. Not only did Peddie state that the arena fully privately-funded, but MLSE paid full property taxes and infrastructure costs. The Flames are looking for a substantial public investment in any new arena, and have implicitly threatened longterm consequences if they cannot reach some sort of agreement.

[SOURCE LINK]

And I think Toronto is the only market where a privately funded arena can actually work. The scope of their satellite community and having the Raptors as a second anchor in their building is like no other in Canada.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by jammies

I think Nenshi anticipated the Flames having a strong negative reaction to his (appropriated) East Village district proposal, and counted on an immediate and inept reaction by CSEC. He is undoubtedly gratified that even his most optimistic hopes for panicked flailing about underestimated just how inept that reaction would be.

Taking it into the public realm is playing his game, Ken King and the owners are never going to out-spin and out-politic a master politician, they'd have been far wiser to just ignore his press release about the arena project and kept to a "we aren't negotiating this in the media" stance if asked about it. Now they're learning it is far more difficult to sway hundreds of thousands of voters than a few good ol' boys at a booze'n'schmooze event.

You're missing a step here. After the City rejected CalgaryNext then proposed this deal we saw on Friday. The Flames said no and what I imagine we'll see next week is that the Flames counter offered with something so far out of touch from Friday's proposal that the city unanimously rejected on July 31ish.

The Flames were probably expecting another counter offer from the city to gt closer but nothing came because there's nothing to get closer on when the offer is outrageous. Flames felt that had to push the envelope this week but they totally did it wrong.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It was a horrible deal for the city of Edmonton and has been rightfully mocked country wide, and even referenced south of the border.

That deal should not be replicated by any municipality, and if anything it has hurt the Flames to wait until the true awfulness the Ice District has become clear to leaders and citizens of Calgary and across Canada.

In their arena pursuit just like in their hockey deals, the Oilers set a precedent of stupidity that ruined everything for the other teams.

The Flames should have got the stupid deal first and forced Edmonton to negotiate or move

[Classic_Sniper]

You can't slap lipstick on a pig and call it pretty. CSEC was always going to look bad because their proposal and perspective from the start was heavily slanted in their direction. They're use to offering deals that they win, that's why they are as successful as they are. I do feel for Ken King in this situation though as his name and reputation is being dragged through the mud here.

Ultimately he's just the messenger for the head honchos who are the ones offering such a horrendous deal. I've met Ken King on a personal level and I can vouch that he and his wife are terrific people. He's doing his job as the corporate puppet in this situation like any other typical PR role would ask. Defend your greedy bosses like your job depends on it, pretty much exactly what is happening in this situation.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The Flames should have got the stupid deal first and forced Edmonton to negotiate or move

The "stupid" deal though is stupid for the taxpayers. Why wish to be on the bad end of a deal?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The "stupid" deal though is stupid for the taxpayers. Why wish to be on the bad end of a deal?

She was saying the Flames should have done it if they wanted the best deal possible for themselves, she wasn't saying it's what she wanted to happen. At least that's how I read it.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Jacks

All I've seen from the city is a screenshot of an infographic, very few details.
The Flames haven't released their offer yet.
I'm not making a judgement until I hear both sides.

[Finger Cookin]

I glanced at the wiki article for Rogers Place - the Oilers/Katz essentially contributed $25M in cash plus are leasing the arena from the City to make the total private contribution around $160M, is that right? Another $125M in user ticket surcharges, and then the balance from the city?

So the ownership contributed just under 1/3 of the total project cost for this arena? Am I understanding that right?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jacks

All I've seen from the city is a screenshot of an infographic, very few details.
The Flames haven't released their offer yet.
I'm not making a judgement until I hear both sides.

I actually think this is a very telling sign from the Flames ownership group that they're releasing a counter offer so quickly after publicly stating they've 'quit' on negotiations. It's as if they knew their offer was bad from the start and the backlash has been so extreme that the CSEC knows they have to revise their offer quickly before they lose faith from all sides. Looks like they're under the gun now and will have to offer major concessions to the city just to not look stupid again.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I actually think this is a very telling sign from the Flames ownership group that they're releasing a counter offer so quickly after publicly stating they've 'quit' on negotiations. It's as if they knew their offer was bad from the start and the backlash has been so extreme that the CSEC knows they have to revise their offer quickly before they lose faith from all sides. Looks like they're under the gun now and will have to offer major concessions to the city just to not look stupid again.

I think they are releasing their counter offer from July, not now.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

My one thought is that this was a Hail Mary with no downside for the flames. If they can turn the election they win. If the public hates them with their threats to move they don't really lose as the worst they can do is the current city position plus whatever they can negotiate. So in the end the Flames ability to deal with the city hasn't really changed as a result but they so far haven't gotten close to their goal of unseating Nenshi.

That's pretty much how I see it. Though it is kinda surprising how little ownership cares about public opinion.

[NiklasSundblad]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That's pretty much how I see it. Though it is kinda surprising how little ownership cares about public opinion.

It's as if they've completely misunderstood that "The City" and "The Public" are actually the same entity in this scenario.

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[Sylvanfan]

Ken King is done in Calgary. He's become the most disliked nan in the city.

Nenshi will rule Calgary for as long as he wants.

[killer_carlson]

i'd like a second poll to occur after the Flames release the details of their proposal.

I think this poll is premature.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

i'd like a second poll to occur after the Flames release the details of their proposal.

I think this poll is premature.

first post.

Originally Posted by Bunk

Understanding the limited utility of a question about just PR as it relates to the Arena, we can have a follow up poll specifically on sentiment on the proposals, once details on the Flames proposal emerges.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

i'd like a second poll to occur after the Flames release the details of their proposal.

I think this poll is premature.

There was going to be a second poll detailing everyone's thoughts on the proposals and what they support after the Flames release theirs, but it wasn't going to have anything to do with the PR battle.

The OP was pretty clear on what this poll was.

[killer_carlson]

and now people have cast a vote to say which side they are on "thus far". They are unlikely to change their opinion once set regardless of what the Flames say.

I'm trying to get people to take a chill pill and see what both sides are saying and then evaluate. That's not happening thus far.

[nik-]

This vote is a blood oath.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

and now people have cast a vote to say which side they are on "thus far". They are unlikely to change their opinion once set regardless of what the Flames say.

I'm trying to get people to take a chill pill and see what both sides are saying and then evaluate. That's not happening thus far.

Well, tough luck for the Flames then, right? They're billionaires, they're a business, and they want money. They're trying to sell us on that, they don't get the benefit of citizens looking past their ineptitude in presenting their side.

They need to gain and change hearts and minds and are instead losing them at a disastrous rate. That's not the fault nor the problem of the citizens that live here, that's on them. So your disdain for public perception and lack of patience of fans and citizens would be better directed at the Calgary Flames.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by nik-

This vote is a blood oath.

fair point.