de Grood to be transferred to hospital for assessment

[peter12]

In this case, average citizens should just trust in the good work being done by dozens of professionals in the legal and medical fields and believe de Grood's treatment is the right course of action.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by peter12

In this case, average citizens should just trust in the good work being done by dozens of professionals in the legal and medical fields and believe de Grood's treatment is the right course of action.

Agree with peter12.

[Corral]

I cringe at how all you happy typers with no skin in the game can so easily accept this as a functional justice system. But i guess that's an internet forum for you, and this is probably the worst place to have this conversation.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Every single person has skin in the game when it comes to the justice system, one of the pillars of our society.

[Ozy_Flame]

Most people have and will have skin in the game with mental health, whether you know it or not.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Corral

I cringe at how all you happy typers with no skin in the game can so easily accept this as a functional justice system. But i guess that's an internet forum for you, and this is probably the worst place to have this conversation.

What?

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Corral

I cringe at how all you happy typers with no skin in the game can so easily accept this as a functional justice system. But i guess that's an internet forum for you, and this is probably the worst place to have this conversation.

It is actually just the opposite - I used to be in the camp of the "lock him up for life" group, but once someone in my life was impacted by mental health I became educated and hope to pass on my new perspective to others.

Having held both perspectives, I can say without a doubt that I was an ignoramous before to have held such a view.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Corral

I cringe at how all you happy typers with no skin in the game can so easily accept this as a functional justice system. But i guess that's an internet forum for you, and this is probably the worst place to have this conversation.

How do you have any more skin in the game than anyone else in the community?

For what its worth, early in my career, I spent some time as an assistant crown attorney and appeared in front of the Ontario Review Board several time. To that extent (fulfilling my duty to represent the community interest in front of the Board), I had some skin in the game.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Corral

I cringe at how all you happy typers with no skin in the game can so easily accept this as a functional justice system. But i guess that's an internet forum for you, and this is probably the worst place to have this conversation.

I'm fully acquainted with both the impacts of mental health issues, as well as the impacts of being the relative of a murder victim. I'm not sure if you have a relationship to one of the victims, or if you're just being an armchair jackass to make yourself feel superior. But not all of us are as ignorant to wider realities as you'd like to believe.

Also, yes, a forum is not always the best place to go searching for validation.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Corral

I cringe at how all you happy typers with no skin in the game can so easily accept this as a functional justice system. But i guess that's an internet forum for you, and this is probably the worst place to have this conversation.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I'm fully acquainted with both the impacts of mental health issues, as well as the impacts of being the relative of a murder victim. I'm not sure if you have a relationship to one of the victims, or if you're just being an armchair jackass to make yourself feel superior. But not all of us are blind to wider realities.

Also, yes, a forum is not always the best place to go searching for validation.

I am genuinely confused as to what he means regarding "skin in the game." Is he a former neighbour of de Grood, related to one of the victims, does he have someone in his family who has committed a violent crime but then was declared NCR due to mental illness?

All of those perspectives would indeed indicate differing levels of skin in the game, but they also don't shed any light on why his opinion should be given any more weight in this discussion - at least not without additional analysis or explanation on the poster's part.

Personally, these situations should clarify for everyone why it is good that we have an independent justice system where experts in many different fields can inform a judge's ability to make the best - and most just - decision for society. If we left criminal justice up to the mob, we would have a lot of lynching, and very little justice.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Corral

I cringe at how all you happy typers with no skin in the game can so easily accept this as a functional justice system. But i guess that's an internet forum for you, and this is probably the worst place to have this conversation.

We have a functional justice system because we don't let fear and ignorance be a part of it. The same goes for emotions and how they can distort.

Conversations help to remove the negative stigma mental illness has and helps people to become better educated. Fear is about something we don't understand and at times want to hide behind because it's easier to accept than the truth.

Why let fear and ignorance make your decisions when the answers are out there?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by GGG

I’d this your view on the Humboldt Bus Driver?

That truck driver made a mistake (running a stop sign) that thousands of drivers make every day across the country, he just had terrible luck in that the results were far more catastrophic. I do believe that he should be barred from ever holding a commercial driving licence again, which would make his risk of re-offence nil. de Grood violently murdered 5 people in a psychotic episode, and were he free to live his live with no supervision all it would take is a lapse in his medication for his risk of re-offense to skyrocket

If he does have to permanently live in a supervised setting, where he can still contribute to society while having strict controls over his medication and regular evaluations, then to me that would still be acceptable. My original post sounded more like "lock him up and throw away the key", though my primary belief is that someone who has shown they are capable of such a horrific crime should lose all rights of full independence and privacy permanently

[Corral]

Justice is not nearly as objective as some of you want to believe. Lets not forget dad is or was a police officer here.

And in comparison. Addiction is also a disease. But the fella who succumbs to his voices and drinks a bottle of whiskey and then runs over 5 pedestrians while driving impaired - is not getting away with no conviction and supervised walks for ice cream in 5 years.

5 people dead. Someone with a disease that needs medication. Different result. But all in the name of justice

[Ozy_Flame]

Are you seriously comparing alcoholism to schizophrenia?

[Corral]

Also think a black kid with the exact medical condition who stabs 5 people to death after hearing voices at a house party in NE Calgary isn’t going on supervised ice cream walks in 5 years

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Corral

And in comparison. Addiction is also a disease. But the fella who succumbs to his voices and drinks a bottle of whiskey and then runs over 5 pedestrians while driving impaired - is not getting away with no conviction and supervised walks for ice cream in 5 years.

Well separate argument but you're right they aren't getting supervised walks, that's because they are already free. How long do you think drunk-drivers stay in jail for? Sentenced to 5-10 years, with time served accounted for, parole eligibility, they're getting a lot less time than someone like de Grood.

[Corral]

There are coloured and indigenous people held for years in psych wards without their consent or any real medical attention.. so yes I have no problem with the same fate for this fellow

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Corral

There are coloured and indigenous people held for years in psych wards without their consent or any real medical attention.. so yes I have no problem with the same fate for this fellow

A more reasonable, compassionate view, would be asking why those people are held without their consent and if that's justice, not using them as an excuse to do it to others....

[DownInFlames]

I think you should be locked up for your lack of punctuation.