Francis: Flames not making excuses for challenges luring top players to Calgary

[Since1984]

If I were an NHL player, I would pick a competitive team that is on the up, in a city with low taxes, where the weather is amazing.

Calgary is none of these things unfortunately.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Yet Eric Francis still resides in this "undesirable market".

I don't think this city has ever had a worst sports writer.

Steve Simmons and Bruce Dowbiggen have both worked in Calgary. Francis is bad, but those guys were some of the all-time worst.

[flames_fan_down_under]

In trades for players like Eichel, other teams want young, projectable, cost controlled, blue chip prospects. The Flames don’t have those. For a multitude of reasons. Trading away draft picks, middling results so no high end picks, and just bad luck.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I didn't have to foresee some very particular events impacting player value to be able to predict that they overachieved after that 2nd overall finish and believe that was the time to extract value with a shakeup. Collapsing to an 8th seed was enough to indicate that perhaps some change was necessary before their value declined. It doesn't matter how that value ended up declining.

Plenty of people were worried that the league had figured out Gaudreau after that series; that Monahan was perhaps a bit of a coattail rider with some injury concerns; that age was not on Giordano's side (although Seattle ended up making that decision on Treliving's behalf). This scenario, no matter how the details eventually unfolded, did not sneak up on us.

So you did see the future then?

I think the collapse to the 8th seed (are you calling that the case in the play in?) would have been too late.

Would have had to be right after the Colorado series, but even that would have been too late potentially too as I think Monahan was hurt then too wasn't he?

What I thought ... that Monahan and Gaudreau would be dominant regular season players, but had a lot to learn/evolve to take that to the playoffs, but luckily some good moves was already building out a more playoff ready top line in Lindholm and Tkachuk. If that was the case you could shelter the old first line more and still have solid scoring depth.

But then I can't see the future. Shame Treliving can't either. Huge advantage!

[Macho0978]

This is why some of us think the best way to fix this team is some form of retool/rebuild. Treliving never touched on that option and he makes excuses of why he is unable to land a star player. Typically most top end draft picks do not hold out and refuse to report to the team that drafted them. The Oilers were mentioned as getting Hyman (not that he is a star and they paid him a ton) but if the Flames had McDavid I'm sure more players would be interested in coming here.

Winning also matters because Canadian markets are tough on players when the team is losing. If they are winning it's much easier to deal with the pressure.

Eichel still has not been traded so it's hard to say that Buffalo isn't being unreasonable but most of us were talking in July about Gaudreau resigning or being traded before his NTC kicked in. That was 2 months ago and nothing new to report. I can see Johnny not wanting to talk extension during the season. About a month left to sign it or we are going into a season with Johnny being a risk to hit UFA status. Not smart when you are an average team and can't just sign someone else to replace him

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Yet Eric Francis still resides in this "undesirable market".

I don't think this city has ever had a worst sports writer.

Francis is a hack...but he's not 100% wrong here.

I love Calgary, it's a great city, but it's also my hometown so I'm naturally biased.

If I was born in Kelowna BC as an example, didn't have a favorite team, and I could play in any NHL city then I'm not sure Calgary is my first choice. Especially if due to tax situations it actually meant I would be making less money by choosing Calgary.

Using Edmonton and Hyman is a stupid example though. Hyman was also a huge overpay by Edmonton to convince him to go there, and Edmonton's market is just as undesirable with the city being worse but they have a better rink and McDavid.

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Eichel still has not been traded so it's hard to say that Buffalo isn't being unreasonable but most of us were talking in July about Gaudreau resigning or being traded before his NTC kicked in. That was 2 months ago and nothing new to report. I can see Johnny not wanting to talk extension during the season. About a month left to sign it or we are going into a season with Johnny being a risk to hit UFA status. Not smart when you are an average team and can't just sign someone else to replace him

Probably not the right thread for this but I think Gaudreau re-signing gets announced when he gets back to Calgary. Based on the way those around his family have talked / tweeted this offseason (mom, sister, uncle) it really does feel like it's inevitable he ends up back here.

Wouldn't be surprised if things are close and they are just waiting due to his wedding this offseason + wanting him in the city to announce it.

[You Need a Thneed]

Stop posting links to Francis articles.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

A lot of attacking the messenger and not countering the message.
Do people think Tre just made this up to save his job?
Do people hate Francis because he is always down on the Flames? I think some people are so enthralled with being a Flames fan that ay negative commentary is looked at as hate speech

As soon as he mentioned taxes you know the article wasn't factually investigated but just Francis opinion.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

A lot of attacking the messenger and not countering the message.
Do people think Tre just made this up to save his job?
Do people hate Francis because he is always down on the Flames? I think some people are so enthralled with being a Flames fan that ay negative commentary is looked at as hate speech

I cannot speak for anyone else, but for me it has more to do with Francis' history of twisting quotes and taking statements out of context to fit his narrative. Honestly, I read that article with the twinge of doubt that the conversation unfolded that way. While I mostly believe that the GM made the quoted statements, the context of those statements matter more to me. I just don't trust Francis to offer honest reporting.

[Dexter403]

I don't think he is really wrong about anything he said. I worked my way up in a business from the bottom job to becoming the owner. I always thought I knew how to do things better than the way my boss did them. I was very critical of decisions he made. When I took over his role I quickly learned that it is so easy from the outside looking in but when you are in that seat your perspective changes very quickly. Changes are not always easy to implement. Some of the things I always thought I would change right away could not be done for reasons I couldn't understand until I was "the guy". While I do not argue that the results have not been there I am of the mind that just because you fire a guy and replace him it does not mean he will be able to do a better job with the situation he is being placed into. We can debate mistakes and point fingers and place blame but that helps nothing. Better to focus on solutions than problems. I really believe that we have a lot of the right pieces in place. Not all of them but enough that we can be competitive every night against any team. I don't think Tre has done a bad job. I think the guys in the room have to choose to show up every day and do the job in front of them. If Sutter can get everyone on the same page I think this group can surprise a lot of people. There have been core groups that have failed year after year and then finally got it right. Considering the market I am willing to give this core the chance to be that team this year.

[Rutuu]

Sigh...I wish there was a grain of truth to what Francis has made up out of thin air today. As always it is sad that a hack like him has been able to cobble together such a lengthy, forgettable and meaningless career in the Calgary market.
It would be a nice re-evaluation point that the team would have to be built mostly through the draft, and not just the top end of the draft, by having more than 7 picks each draft.

Until we finish top 7 (the best 20% of the league), this team should have a hard cap budget of $10m below the salary cap, so who cares about free agents with that model.

[gilligans_off]

Reading between the lines here, but sounds like Eichel doesn’t want to come here and/or we didn’t have enough on the table to get it done. Preemptive attempts at curbing disappointment when our team doesn’t change any further before opening night. Saying you’re not making excuses, sure sounds like you’re making… well, excuses lol

[Macman]

I don't think a dated arena is a hinderance to players wanting to come here or not or at least it shouldn't be. They're on the ice and I'm sure they have more than adequate facilities like gym, etc.

It was good enough for Hall Of Famer Jarome Iginla.

So I think Francis is wrong on that part.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If he was serious about this topic, he would bring up examples of players signing below market deals to play in preferred markets. IMO it happens extremely rarely.

It's a salary cap league with remarkable parity.

From another thread

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No one wants to play in Calgary? And yet Treliving seems to sign his UFA targets every year.

Spezza , Thornton, Perry signing for much less than market in places that they want to play.

Eric Staal signed in Minnesota for less than half his previous cap hit and will likely sign for below market on the team he wants to play on.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

As soon as he mentioned taxes you know the article wasn't factually investigated but just Francis opinion.

why?
Check this out, Calgary's tax rate is up there.

https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think you certainly have markets with an advantage.
Let's look at the Rangers - they had Panarin choose them. They had Fox choose them allowing them to get him for a low acquisition cost. Those are game changing acquisitions not available to most teams.

If you go back further, when Panarin came over, it's not like the Hawks uncovered some hidden gem. The entire league, including the Flames, were after the guy. He chose Chicago because its Chicago.

So you have markets with an advantage: NYR, Chicago, Boston, Flordia teams, California teams.

The question then is it "everyone else" or are there truly teams at a disadvantage. I would argue there are and Calgary is on that list. Hard to prove.

[Joborule]

Even if Calgary is more challenging market to bring players in - especially due to the lack of sustain competitive success where players will be willing to come if they think they can win the cup - this is why you gotta focus on building from within. Smaller market and less desirable markets don't really have an alternative way of building when FAs want to go to New York and California and the like.

It's why Trevliving pissing away those early round picks for the likes of a Hamonic has hurt this franchise.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Even if Calgary is more challenging market to bring players in - especially due to the lack of sustain competitive success where players will be willing to come if they think they can win the cup - this is why you gotta focus on building from within. Smaller market and less desirable markets don't really have an alternative way of building when FAs want to go to New York and California and the like.

It's why Trevliving pissing away those early round picks for the likes of a Hamonic has hurt this franchise.

I don't disagree and have stated I wish they would re-build properly. I see it as an organization mandate issue and not a BT issue.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Just further driving home how important draft picks are in Calgary.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't disagree and have stated I wish they would re-build properly. I see it as an organization mandate issue and not a BT issue.

It could be, but I do think that initially when he was hired that the organization/owners as a whole were committed to a patient rebuild. But the surprise playoffs of 2014 possibly gave both Treliving and the owners a false idea of how far ahead of the rebuild they were. There was a #### ton of luck involved that season for the results that they got. Quite frankly shouldn't have happened statistically. (But was fun as hell to watch)