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Old 05-07-2021, 09:30 AM   #11861
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Man I want this team to blow it up so badly right now.

Trade Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund and Giordano for as many high end futures as they can possibly get their mitts on. Also take on bad contracts to help supplement the value and increase the returns.

I wanted them to do it last off season, but they didn't do it then, and they won't do it now either.
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:34 AM   #11862
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Man I want this team to blow it up so badly right now.

Trade Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund and Giordano for as many high end futures as they can possibly get their mitts on. Also take on bad contracts to help supplement the value and increase the returns.

I wanted them to do it last off season, but they didn't do it then, and they won't do it now either.
And really it's fans like us to blame.

Even if they put an average team on the ice, with a chance to win, they will continue to sell out games and people will watch games on tv and buy merchandise.

Welcome to mediocrity
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:43 AM   #11863
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
Man I want this team to blow it up so badly right now.

Trade Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund and Giordano for as many high end futures as they can possibly get their mitts on. Also take on bad contracts to help supplement the value and increase the returns.

I wanted them to do it last off season, but they didn't do it then, and they won't do it now either.
I'm with you man...F this core

The only one I'd wanna keep with hopes he rebounds when surrounded with other players who actually give a crap is Tkachuk...
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Old 05-07-2021, 02:37 PM   #11864
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Based on how Darryl Sutter treats the younger kids on the team and how much Sutter cares about winning each and every single game regardless of the standings, does anyone honestly think it's realistic that the Flames go through even a retool?

I think Sutter will considerable influence on player personnel decisions and no way I see Sutter accepting the idea of multiple veteran players being traded for rookies and futures. He'd likely just be benching those young players like he's done Dube and Valimaki.

Sorry everyone, but Darryl has 2 years left on his deal and I think people are wasting their time with some of these proposals. For instance, I'm not sure Giordano gets moved at all this summer. Gio is Darryl's #1 defenseman and no way he allows Gio to just be exposed in the expansion draft so he can play his "4th best defenseman (Hanifin)" as the default top pair. The retooling is a total pipedream, if anything, Darryl might actually want more veteran players on this team next season.
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Old 05-07-2021, 02:54 PM   #11865
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
Based on how Darryl Sutter treats the younger kids on the team and how much Sutter cares about winning each and every single game regardless of the standings, does anyone honestly think it's realistic that the Flames go through even a retool?

I think Sutter will considerable influence on player personnel decisions and no way I see Sutter accepting the idea of multiple veteran players being traded for rookies and futures. He'd likely just be benching those young players like he's done Dube and Valimaki.

Sorry everyone, but Darryl has 2 years left on his deal and I think people are wasting their time with some of these proposals. For instance, I'm not sure Giordano gets moved at all this summer. Gio is Darryl's #1 defenseman and no way he allows Gio to just be exposed in the expansion draft so he can play his "4th best defenseman (Hanifin)" as the default top pair. The retooling is a total pipedream, if anything, Darryl might actually want more veteran players on this team next season.
If Darryl is given that amount of power or influence over roster moves we are in far worse shape moving forward than we all thought.

His job is to coach. That's where it should end. If he doesn't like that he should be shown the door regardless of the optics.
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Old 05-07-2021, 02:55 PM   #11866
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We are in for a world of pain for a couple years.
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Old 05-07-2021, 03:03 PM   #11867
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We are in for a world of pain for a couple years.
We’ve been in a world of pain for 30 years.
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Old 05-07-2021, 03:15 PM   #11868
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
Based on how Darryl Sutter treats the younger kids on the team and how much Sutter cares about winning each and every single game regardless of the standings, does anyone honestly think it's realistic that the Flames go through even a retool?

I think Sutter will considerable influence on player personnel decisions and no way I see Sutter accepting the idea of multiple veteran players being traded for rookies and futures. He'd likely just be benching those young players like he's done Dube and Valimaki.

Sorry everyone, but Darryl has 2 years left on his deal and I think people are wasting their time with some of these proposals. For instance, I'm not sure Giordano gets moved at all this summer. Gio is Darryl's #1 defenseman and no way he allows Gio to just be exposed in the expansion draft so he can play his "4th best defenseman (Hanifin)" as the default top pair. The retooling is a total pipedream, if anything, Darryl might actually want more veteran players on this team next season.
I don't see how a re-tool would work anyway. Every proposal I've seen involves trading one or two players from the top 6 for a player(s) worse than we are trading in an attempt to get better. Just doesn't add up to me. I get it if your rebuilding but I agree we aren't.

I highly suspect we see a trade or UFA sign a top six forward at the expense of prospects and picks with the rest of the core remaining... and I suspect we see that no matter who the GM is.
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Old 05-07-2021, 03:31 PM   #11869
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I think what you can expect to see are "change of scenery" type of trades involving members of the core. Something to shake the roster up. Most likely with another team that is not elite and also looking to shake things up.

For example:

Tkachuk to Arizona for Keller


Not saying I agree with it, or even that the value is fair. Just saying, young underperforming core player for young underperforming core player type of trade between two teams that are not happy with their results.
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Old 05-07-2021, 03:42 PM   #11870
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solution:



-sell off the guys Darryl doesn't like
-sign gritty, veteran UFAs to 1 year deals
-sell off the vets at the deadline when the team sucks again

Could sneak a rebuild under Darryl's radar!
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Old 05-07-2021, 03:50 PM   #11871
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
I think what you can expect to see are "change of scenery" type of trades involving members of the core. Something to shake the roster up. Most likely with another team that is not elite and also looking to shake things up.

For example:

Tkachuk to Arizona for Keller


Not saying I agree with it, or even that the value is fair. Just saying, young underperforming core player for young underperforming core player type of trade between two teams that are not happy with their results.
Trading with Coyotes works on many levels... both have quality Arizona-trained management, both have a majority of fans in stands from Alberta, similar success level, similar playing styles (last I checked, though could be out of date). Let's trade core for core and see what happens.
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Old 05-07-2021, 03:50 PM   #11872
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If Darryl is given that amount of power or influence over roster moves we are in far worse shape moving forward than we all thought.

His job is to coach. That's where it should end. If he doesn't like that he should be shown the door regardless of the optics.
Didn’t people lement and bemoan for said elite coach?? No organization is paying this many coaches to be paid not to coach. He’s the one with the Stanley Cup rings no? Wasn’t he supposed to tell the organization which players belong and which don’t? They fired a head coach one month into his 2 year deal for Darryl. Truth is, Sutter probably has more leash than Tre or any new GM coming in. He has the power right now.

And so far, from what we’ve seen, he likes his veterans like Gio and Tanev and other older/experienced players. He’s benched and scratched and the Dubes and the Valimakis and hasn’t pulled many punches criticizing the youth. He doesn’t like young players who have to learn to be a pro, he wants pros now. Any new young kids coming in will undoubtably be in the dog house. So I just don’t see him being ok with babysitting, he’s gonna want a good, solid, dependable vets who can play his style methinks.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:05 PM   #11873
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does anyone honestly think it's realistic that the Flames go through even a retool?
Yes, because a retool is swapping out certain players who aren't fitting in for players you think are a better fit. I know that there will be people who say the whole team doesn't fit and that everyone needs to go but just bringing in certain players can have a positive effect on other players.

I don't think he would be up for a rebuild which is what you're talking about in the second paragraph. They aren't going to fire him unless another Peters situation comes up and they're going to have to really piss him off to make him quit and I just don't see them doing that for various reasons.

If he doesn't get fired this summer Treliving knows he can't risk going into next season not doing anything significant after showing know signs of improvement since 2019 which is really when there should have been some changes to the core.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:08 PM   #11874
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I don't see how a re-tool would work anyway. Every proposal I've seen involves trading one or two players from the top 6 for a player(s) worse than we are trading in an attempt to get better. Just doesn't add up to me. I get it if your rebuilding but I agree we aren't.

I highly suspect we see a trade or UFA sign a top six forward at the expense of prospects and picks with the rest of the core remaining... and I suspect we see that no matter who the GM is.
Seems like a lot of posters are tired of seeing certain core players and want them to be moved for younger pieces that have potential to be good one day. Problem is, Darryl has shown the propensity to dislike the young guns and their mistakes. He made a funny quip the other day about how "I guess that's how they learn."

But he clearly looks annoyed with younger players who are learning on the jon and seems to have very little patience with them. A players coach like Geoff Ward probably wouldn't have them miss a shift whereas Darryl have no problem benching or scratching the kids. Heck I think Darryl has already scratched Valimaki 3 times in his short stint here and has benched and scratched Dube several times. Everyone seems to be clamouring for the Heat players to get in and Darryl seems to be having none of that yet.

So the idea that Darryl will just accept a pile of these guys on the roster next year just seems silly. As crazy as it sounds, I could see a scenario where Hanifin is moved this offseason just so Gio isn't exposed to Seattle; or some kind of side deal is made. Proof? Darryl has actually demoted Hanifin and is playing Gio more minutes and went on public to say Gio was the team's best defenseman if memory serves.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:11 PM   #11875
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
I think what you can expect to see are "change of scenery" type of trades involving members of the core. Something to shake the roster up. Most likely with another team that is not elite and also looking to shake things up.

For example:

Tkachuk to Arizona for Keller


Not saying I agree with it, or even that the value is fair. Just saying, young underperforming core player for young underperforming core player type of trade between two teams that are not happy with their results.
Honestly I think you are right. There is no doubt the organization hopes that some shake up trades and a full training camp with Sutter will result in an attempt to win right away.

Arizona, Dallas, Nashville, New York, Philadelphia, Columbus could all be potential trade partners
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:17 PM   #11876
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Yes, because a retool is swapping out certain players who aren't fitting in for players you think are a better fit. I know that there will be people who say the whole team doesn't fit and that everyone needs to go but just bringing in certain players can have a positive effect on other players.

I don't think he would be up for a rebuild which is what you're talking about in the second paragraph. They aren't going to fire him unless another Peters situation comes up and they're going to have to really piss him off to make him quit and I just don't see them doing that for various reasons.

If he doesn't get fired this summer Treliving knows he can't risk going into next season not doing anything significant after showing know signs of improvement since 2019 which is really when there should have been some changes to the core.
Well then isn't every team retooling every year then? I feel like the word retool is sort of the inbetween of a rebuild and tinkering your roster. Retooling is not a complete rebuild, but it's about trading older pieces for younger ones and I just don't think Darryl will be up for either a rebuild or a retool. I think he's more interested in tinkering, trading one or two guys for an upgrade, adding a new UFA to fill one who just left. But I just don't think Darryl will have any interest in young guys who are learning on the job, I think he's going to want impactful veterans, good talented difference makers in the prime of their careers rather than a second or third year player with plenty of potential, but who makes noob mistakes.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:26 PM   #11877
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The problem is that, due to our abysmal season, our assets are at their lowest value.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:30 PM   #11878
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Well then isn't every team retooling every year then? I feel like the word retool is sort of the inbetween of a rebuild and tinkering your roster. Retooling is not a complete rebuild, but it's about trading older pieces for younger ones and I just don't think Darryl will be up for either a rebuild or a retool. I think he's more interested in tinkering, trading one or two guys for an upgrade, adding a new UFA to fill one who just left. But I just don't think Darryl will have any interest in young guys who are learning on the job, I think he's going to want impactful veterans, good talented difference makers in the prime of their careers rather than a second or third year player with plenty of potential, but who makes noob mistakes.
You're thinking more "reset".

I found this which is a pretty good explanation. You could argue that the Flames should do a mix between "reset" and "retool".

https://jdlagrange.com/2020/01/10/wh...e-differences/
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:36 PM   #11879
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You're thinking more "reset".

I found this which is a pretty good explanation. You could argue that the Flames should do a mix between "reset" and "retool".

https://jdlagrange.com/2020/01/10/wh...e-differences/
Why would the Flames do a mix of reset/retool?

The Flames need a new core built on elite centres & defencemen.

Quote:
Rebuild – Draft almost entirely new team core
That’s what this team needs.

For those speculating about what Darryl wants - he wants to win a Cup here. The roster here is incapable of that and the composition of championship teams show a blueprint that this team does not possess. There’s no reason to believe Darryl is only here for two more seasons. There’s no crazy deadline to meet here.

Last edited by ComixZone; 05-07-2021 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:42 PM   #11880
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Why would the Flames do a mix of rest/retool?

The Flames need a new core built on elite centres & defencemen.



That’s what this team needs.
When I say mix I'm talking more about the trading prospects/picks part. They aren't a contender yet so they should be keeping as many as they can unless they have a chance to get an impactful player(like Eichel) where it's worth it.
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