As a musician (and you see the same sentiment from other legendary performers paying tribute recently), I don't hesitate to say that Prince had the most substance of any living musician I know in terms of the broad skill and comprehensive mastery of every musical genre and style.
The problem again, is that his studio albums are frankly a product of the era, of Warner Brothers, and of his own personal desires to make them that way for whatever reason.
He could pick up a bass and play the most incredible funk. He could get on his electric guitar and give Hendrix a run for his money. He could get behind a piano and play the most subtle jazz. Some of his best concerts were just him with only a piano or only an acoustic guitar.
Meh, Yngwie Malmsteen would sell more records than the Beatles if all that stuff mattered. You can find tons of amazing musicians on youtube. At certain point you have to write meaningful creative songs and IMO I don't think he ever did that. The closest was When Doves Cry.
Meh, Yngwie Malmsteen would sell more records than the Beatles if all that stuff mattered. You can find tons of amazing musicians on youtube. At certain point you have to write meaningful creative songs and IMO I don't think he ever did that. The closest was When Doves Cry.
So you are basically arguing that musicianship, composition, arrangement, instrumentation don't matter. I guess you have no idea what the word music actually means then. Mozart and Bach didn't write a single meaningful lyric either.
You said yourself you are only familiar with his 80s hits. That's about 1% of his total musical output in his career. I appreciate the amazing individual musicians on Youtube more than the Beatles or Mariah Carey or Kanye West or anybody else who is proficient at selling records. If your measure of musical success is how many records they sold, or how the words they wrote sold to the mass audience, I don't know what else to say.
Last edited by Hack&Lube; 05-07-2016 at 10:20 PM.
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The most poignant song for me is probably "Sometimes It Snows in April" but that's pretty self-explanatory if you listen to it (the last song in the acoustic guitar clip I posted). Prince constantly sung about becoming a better person, life/death, and getting to heaven so perhaps it's fitting he passed away in April.
In terms of lyrical depth, his songs were full of multiple layers of meaning in terms of politics, religion, humanity, love, sex, etc. You just have to pay attention.
Let's Go Crazy is not about having fun, going partying, letting people get you down and off the dance floor etc. It's a song about fighting for more than just every day pleasures because your soul is immortal and there is heaven and hell. The "de-elevator" bringing people down is actually "the devil" and he encourages you to "punch a higher floor" if your soul is being dragged downward immorally. His 1980s manager Alan Leeds (who also managed James Brown) mentioned the tragic absurdity that Prince passed away in his own elevator.
I didn't agree with his religion but Prince's lyrics are full of double meanings and layers and layers of depth. It's actually all very apocalyptic. "Party like it's 1999" is not just a song about partying and fun. Read the lyrics. It means party like it's the end of the world. It's a song about nuclear war and the year is significant because it's a post-millennialist/cold-war theology in terms of people believing the end times would come with the millennium.
It perfectly demonstrates the dichotomy between the hedonistic/party lifestyle he seemed to advocate and embody on the outside, and his inner conflict with his moral soul. That followed him his whole life.
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Last edited by Hack&Lube; 05-07-2016 at 10:47 PM.
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So you are basically arguing that musicianship, composition, arrangement, instrumentation don't matter. I guess you have no idea what the word music actually means then. Mozart and Bach didn't write a single meaningful lyric either.
You said yourself you are only familiar with his 80s hits. That's about 1% of his total musical output in his career. I appreciate the amazing individual musicians on Youtube more than the Beatles or Mariah Carey or Kanye West or anybody else who is proficient at selling records. If your measure of musical success is how many records they sold, or how the words they wrote sold to the mass audience, I don't know what else to say.
You made a post basically saying he was a really good musician so he had lots of substance. I said being a good musician isn't everything, Yngwie Malmsteen is a super fast technical guitarist but isn't nearly popular as The Beatles who are regarded as some of the best songwriters. Prince writes average songs IMO, but he can bust out a sick blues solo. Like a million other people.
There's not much point in continuing this if you're going to be obtuse just to get a jab in about "having no idea what music means".
You also purposely misquoted me to better fit your narrative. But whatever.
Meh, Yngwie Malmsteen would sell more records than the Beatles if all that stuff mattered. You can find tons of amazing musicians on youtube. At certain point you have to write meaningful creative songs and IMO I don't think he ever did that. The closest was When Doves Cry.
You know he wrote this, right?
And this...
and this...
and at least 20 other hits. I get it. You don't like him. I don't care. He's a genius.
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Sure. And we all remember those evergreens. I mean who could forget Tevin Campbells 'Round and Round', 'The Bird' by Time (such an unforgettable band that was), MC Hammers 'Pray' (not actually written by Prince but regurarly listed as his song because it stole from When Doves Cry), 'Stand Back' by Stevie Nicks (co-written), 'Love Song' by Madonna (co-written), 'I Feel for You' by Chaka Khan, 'Single Again' by Trina...
Oh and of course this gem of deep philosophy by Vanity 6.
To sum it up, pretty much all of Prince's hit songs written for others were deservedly forgotten pop trash. Does it take skill to write those? Sure. But there's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.
Since when is selling records a value of a musician? Nickelback's sold 50 million albums and they're second to the Beatles in terms of foreign acts for album sales in the U.S. since 2000. Does that make them better than Radiohead? I would have to say no.
His pop hits never resonated with me so I never really paid much attention to him before his death.
But I remember really being turned off by how his fans would build him up with all that 'musical genius' talk. It had the same sort of feeling as those "Have you found Jesus?" talks at your front door. I don't like people trying to sell me stuff. Gets my back up.
The whole symbol "artist-formally-known-as-Prince" bugged me. I get it was so he would welsh on a contract, I guess I didn't like how the whole world followed along. To me it seemed an outward expression of a humongous ego, or something.
That being said I've watched a number of live performances on YouTube after his death and can certainly appreciate his talent, if not his actual songs.
Here's another favorite rare acoustic performance I saw a long time ago and now is finally back again. Prince certainly didn't treat his fans very well, consistently getting youtube accounts shut down and banned for trying to showcase some of his music and pay tribute. This is one of only two reunions with Wendy from the Revolution days that I know about.
The whole symbol "artist-formally-known-as-Prince" bugged me. I get it was so he would welsh on a contract, I guess I didn't like how the whole world followed along. To me it seemed an outward expression of a humongous ego, or something.
Yes it was absolutely a protest of his contract with Warner. He legally complied and delivered all the albums they wanted according to the contract but as an artist, he was making a protest against the system and the music industry of the day. He wanted to do a lot of things but they only let him release one album a year, tried to control his music, the image, etc.
He actually won a Webby 10 years ago or so for being one of the first musicians to sell music directly over the internet. It's a bit of a forerunner to today's world where anybody can release their music through social media, get their own music pressed, do their own marketing, and not have to sign away 95% of the proceeds to a music label and pay for all their own production and expenses to even get on the radio.
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But I remember really being turned off by how his fans would build him up with all that 'musical genius' talk. It had the same sort of feeling as those "Have you found Jesus?" talks at your front door. I don't like people trying to sell me stuff. Gets my back up.
Oh yeah, I totally get that part and despise it myself so maybe I should stop trying to proselytize...but as a musician, I can't help but try to share those expressions of appreciation for lost talent and lost art. I was the same way. I never liked his music and it never caught onto me. I remember as a kid thinking it was super cheesy and I didn't care...until I actually picked up a guitar and tried to teach myself piano in the mid-2000s and I was like "holy crap, how does he do this???" and that changed and reformed my mind more than anything else ever done in my life. Wow this really does sound like evangelizing. I'll stop now!
Last edited by Hack&Lube; 05-08-2016 at 03:57 PM.
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and at least 20 other hits. I get it. You don't like him. I don't care. He's a genius.
As I stated earlier I wasn't a huge fan but he was a great talent on and off the stage. As a writer he was incredible.
His top songs written for other artists.
Stevie Nicks "Stand Back" (1983) #5 US
Chaka Khan "I Feel For You" (1984)#3 US #1 UK (yr end charts '85 #5 in us)
Sheila E. "The Glamorous life" (1984) #7 US
The Time "The Bird" (1984) #36US
The Time "Jungle love" (1985) #20 US
Sheena Easton "Sugar walls" (1985) #9 US
Sheila E. "The Belle Of St Mark" (1985) #34 US #18 UK
Bangles "Manic Monday" (1986) #2 US (behind "Kiss, at #1), #2 UK
Sheila E. "A Love Bizarre" (1986) #11 US
Art Of Noise featuring Tom Jones "Kiss" (1988) #5 UK
Simple minds "sign o the times" (1989) #18 UK
Elisa Fiorillo "On the way up" (1990) #27 US
Sinead O'Connor "Nothing Compares 2 U" (1990) #1 US #1 UK (#1 in yr end charts in us and #2 in uk)(#1 in 21 countries)
Kid Creole & The Coconuts "The Sex Of It" (1990) #29 UK
MC Hammer "Pray" (1990) #2 US #8 UK (sampled)
The Time "Jerk Out" (1991) #9 US
Tevin Campbell "Round and Round" (1991) #11 US
Martika "Love... Thy Will Be Done" (1991) #10 US #9 UK
Martika "Martika's Kitchen " (1991) #17 UK
Monie Love "Born 2 B.R.E.E.D." (1993) #18 UK
Monie Love "In A Word Or 2 / The Power" (1993) #33 UK
New Power Generation "Get Wild" (1995) #19 UK
MoKenStef "He's Mine" (1995) #7 US (sampled "Do Me Baby")
New Power Generation "The Good " (1995) #29 UK
New Power Generation "The Good" (1997) #15 UK (reissue)
Ginuwine "When Doves Cry " (1997) #10 UK
Jordan knight "I could never take the place of your man" (1999) #37 US
Alicia Keys "How Come You Don't Call Me Anymore" (2002) #26 UK
Jay-Z featuring Beyonce Knowles "03 Bonnie & Clyde" (2003) #4 US #2 UK (sampled)
Inaya Day "Nasty Girl" (2005) #9 UK
If and when his vault gets opened we could see a lot more.
The issue is not one of comprehension but personal preference. I don't prefer Princes music, but I also love Megadeth and most people hate them. To each their own.
I found his style too much in the style of ballads but many people love that kind of thing, it has its merits for those that enjoy it.
As I stated earlier I wasn't a huge fan but he was a great talent on and off the stage. As a writer he was incredible.
His top songs written for other artists..
As I said, mostly a bunch of forgettable trash. No one would use those songs as proof of someone being a musical genius if the name attached to them was someone like Kanye West or Max Martin.
Last edited by Itse; 05-09-2016 at 05:10 AM.
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Tests show that Prince died of an opioid overdose, a law-enforcement official told The Associated Press on Thursday.
The 57-year-old singer was found dead April 21 at his Minneapolis-area estate.
The official, who is close to the investigation, spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
The findings confirm suspicions that opioids played a role in the musician's death. After he died, authorities began reviewing whether an overdose was to blame and whether he had been prescribed drugs in the preceding weeks.
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At least two doctors' names have come up in the death investigation being conducted by the Carver County Sheriff's Office, the U.S. Attorney's Office in Minnesota and the Drug Enforcement Administration.
Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg, a family practitioner, treated Prince twice in the weeks before his death and told investigators he prescribed medications for the singer. The medications were not specified in a search warrant for the Minnesota hospital that employed Schulenberg at the time.
Schulenberg saw Prince April 7 and April 20 — the day before his death — according to the warrant. Schulenberg's attorney has declined to comment on the case.
Dr. Howard Kornfeld, a California addiction specialist, was asked by Prince's representatives on April 20 to help the singer.
Kornfeld sent his son Andrew on a redeye flight that night, and Andrew was among the people who found Prince's unresponsive body the next morning, according to Kornfeld's attorney, William Mauzy.
The younger Kornfeld, who is not a doctor, was carrying buprenorphine, a medication that can be used to treat opioid addiction by easing cravings and withdrawal symptoms, Mauzy said, explaining that Andrew Kornfeld intended to give the medication to a Minnesota doctor who had cleared his schedule to see Prince on April 21.
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Ugh. I think if I get some time I'll do up a thread on the changing face of opiate abuse. Interesting and incredibly scary what's happening and there's surprisingly little coverage. It's literally killing people and running lives at an incredibly alarming rate and the wrist part is how fast it's growing.
How many people knew the US and Canada are 1 and 2 in the world in opiate use?
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The sad thing too is how much artists are enabled in their drug use by the people surrounding them, who should be protecting them. Record companies, agents, road managers, publicists, physicians etc.
Friend of a friend in the US worked for a record company - part of her "job" was to get cocaine for the artists that were performing in her town.
