2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors v2

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I think if the Flames trade a lot of salary in Smid, Stajan, Jones, Russell, and/or Bollig at the deadline, I could see something like this:

Flames trade: Wideman + Colborne

Lightining trade: Carle + Condra + Drouin

How do you see this breaking down value wise? I can't figure out what you're giving up for Drouin, looks like nothing? TB would need more assets back I would think.

[killer_carlson]

I could see TB being interested in Jankowski

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Yzmeran wants to move Drouin sooner rather than later.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...234545401.html

Lebrun believes Drouin will either be moved for low salary prospects, or otherwise packaged with Carle to free up some cap space.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=14836922

Yzerman wants a right handed top 4 defensemen that can help their power play.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightn...adline/2266701

Wideman for Carle and Drouin?

Edit: Beat to it above.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Wideman for Carle and Drouin?

Edit: Beat to it above.

Wideman for Carle makes some sense but what are you giving up for Drouin? Yzerman values this guy as a top 5 pick. There's no way picking up the extra year on Carle is worth Drouin, no way.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

How do you see this breaking down value wise? I can't figure out what you're giving up for Drouin, looks like nothing? TB would need more assets back I would think.

Add Hickey or Arnold. Wideman > Carle, while Colbone > Condra. They are getting more value for their cap situation, while saving years' of contract hits. Carle carries an extra year on Wideman and they could trade Colborne in the off-season.

[ComixZone]

We could acquire Carle and then buy him out this summer. The penalty would be that we carry a 1.833M cap-hit until 2020 (4 seasons, double the number of years left on his hideous contract).

Or play him next year, buy him out the following year and only carry the penalty of 1.833M until 2019.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Wideman for Carle makes some sense but what are you giving up for Drouin? Yzerman values this guy as a top 5 pick. There's no way picking up the extra year on Carle is worth Drouin, no way.

Perhaps. But it isn't just the extra year. Carle has two points this year and hasn't been able to play more the 3/4 of a season since joining Tampa. Wideman is a RH shot that Tampa is looking good for. They need to give to make that swap.

Plus they aren't working from a position of strength with Drouin. He want out. Yzerman had publicly said they want to move him. Plus the kid is sitting out.

It might take a bit more on the Flames side to make the deal. But if I am taking Carle I am not adding a bunch more if I am the Flames.

[MarkGio]

I can't see the Flames retaining salary on Wideman for such a deal. That would mean Carle would cost them 8.125 million next season (5.5 million for next two years + 2.62 million for next year). For the Flames to accept that, they're basically needing to shed a butt load of salary and take on no free agents. They would basically be accepting next season as a wash

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Wideman for Carle makes some sense but what are you giving up for Drouin? Yzerman values this guy as a top 5 pick. There's no way picking up the extra year on Carle is worth Drouin, no way.

Oh, it's worth it alright. To Tampa. It's a huge step in keeping together their core of Kucherov, Johnson, Stamkos, Hedman, and Palat and dropping an anchor.

And Carle is one helluvan anchor. Like, I'd be nervous about Wideman for Carle/Drouin because he's that bad + the term.

[MarkGio]

If I was Yzerman I would try and trade them separately.

Carle + 1st round pick to the Leafs

Then Drouin for whatever is good. The problem is, the Leaf's would want Drouin over a 1st round pick

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Perhaps. But it isn't just the extra year. Carle has two points this year and hasn't been able to play more the 3/4 of a season since joining Tampa. Wideman is a RH shot that Tampa is looking good for. They need to give to make that swap.

Isn't that assuming they haven't scouted Wideman much this year and noticed he hasn't been very good either? I think Wideman is tradeable if we take a bad contract back but I don't think he holds a ton of value.

Originally Posted by kehatch

Plus they aren't working from a position of strength with Drouin. He want out. Yzerman had publicly said they want to move him. Plus the kid is sitting out.

No they aren't and it will affect his value somewhat. But it doesn't tank his value completely. They're going to want more for Drouin. He's at least worth a mid 1st rounder (not ours this year obviously) IMO in terms of raw value.

Originally Posted by kehatch

It might take a bit more on the Flames side to make the deal. But if I am taking Carle I am not adding a bunch more if I am the Flames.

Carle's contract sucks for sure. Getting rid of his contract for Wideman isn't worth dumping a 1st rounder to them and that is what I see Drouin's value as.

I think they'd get crucified for making that trade.

[kehatch]

Wideman hasn't been great but he is a year removed from a very good season and he fits the skill set Tampa is looking for. Most of all I think the difference between 2 and 3 years is an eternity when talking about bad contracts.

You might be right and Calgary needs to add some. I would consider a mid pick or a B prospect. But if Yzerman won't take that (and he may not) then I take Wideman/Carle off the table and talk just Drouin.

I have no interest in a Carle / Wideman swap unless Tampa is adding a big sweetener.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Isn't that assuming they haven't scouted Wideman much this year and noticed he hasn't been very good either? I think Wideman is tradeable if we take a bad contract back but I don't think he holds a ton of value.



No they aren't and it will affect his value somewhat. But it doesn't tank his value completely. They're going to want more for Drouin. He's at least worth a mid 1st rounder (not ours this year obviously) IMO in terms of raw value.



Carle's contract sucks for sure. Getting rid of his contract for Wideman isn't worth dumping a 1st rounder to them and that is what I see Drouin's value as.

I think they'd get crucified for making that trade.

Look at it from a supply & demand stand point. A team has to convince their ownership to pay 11 million dollars (what Carle is owed for the next two season) to acquire Drouin. A lot of teams are budgeted and cheap out on UFAs and bridge contracts, let alone capable of spending 11 million just to sweeten a deal.

So at least half of the teams are out from a financial stand point. The teams can afford 11 million for ####s and giggles are the cap stricken teams, so a 5.5 million cap hit for two years is crippling. So that basically leaves Yzerman with whatever teams are left that have money and cap space. I can think of one team only.

Edit: Keep in mind the financial teams and cap stricken teams would need to send salary back to make it work.Well, sending salary back doesn't work for TB because they need it.

Yzerman is screwed.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Look at it from a supply & demand stand point. A team has to convince their ownership to pay 11 million dollars (what Carle is owed for the next two season) to acquire Drouin. A lot of teams are budgeted and cheap out on UFAs and bridge contracts, let alone capable of spending 11 million just to sweeten a deal.

So at least half of the teams are out from a financial stand point. The teams can afford 11 million for ####s and giggles are the cap stricken teams, so a 5.5 million cap hit for two years is crippling. So that basically leaves Yzerman with whatever teams are left that have money and cap space. I can think of one team only.

Yzerman is screwed.

TOR? They seem like a team that is happy to trade cap space for picks/prospects.

It's something we would've done a year or two ago but I'm not sure we have the excess cap space to eat many bad contracts anymore unless we manage to dump some of our own bad contracts first.

[GranteedEV]

For Carle to make sense I think the trade has to be bigger:

Calgary Trades:
Russell
Wideman

Tampa Trades:
Carle
Drouin
Koekkoek
Point

Eat Carle until 2017 offseason, then buy him out in the final year if necessary ($1,833,333 cap hit until 2019)

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

TOR? They seem like a team that is happy to trade cap space for picks/prospects.

It's something we would've done a year or two ago but I'm not sure we have the excess cap space to eat many bad contracts anymore unless we manage to dump some of our own bad contracts first.

Yup. Toronto is the only team that can absorb cap and afford salary. Maybe Montreal could make it work next season with a few players coming off the books, and maybe Buffalo gets lucky and signs a few RFAs to a home town discount. The only way the Flames are in that position cap wise is if they manage to part with a lot of salary this deadline.

[kehatch]

I think people need to remember that Wideman becomes a potential asset this summer. With a little salary retained a team can have Wideman on a one year deal at 3.5 to 4 million. If not in the summer then for sure at the next deadline.

Meanwhile Carle will still have a year under contract following a poor season with a 5.5 million dollar hit.

Term is a killer now a days. Is it worth Drouin to offload Carle for Wideman? Perhaps not that much. But it is definitely worth something and should significantly reduce the cost to get Drouin.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I think people need to remember that Wideman becomes a potential asset this summer. With a little salary retained a team can have Wideman on a one year deal at 3.5 to 4 million. If not in the summer then for sure at the next deadline.

Meanwhile Carle will still have a year under contract following a poor season with a 5.5 million dollar hit.

Term is a killer now a days. Is it worth Drouin to offload Carle for Wideman? Perhaps not that much. But it is definitely worth something and should significantly reduce the cost to get Drouin.

Agree 100%!

Almost willing to retain 1M of Wideman next year as well.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Bob Mackenzie speculating on tsn that the Lighting may be looking for a player, top prospect and pick for Drouin.

Yikes

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Bob Mackenzie speculating on tsn that the Lighting may be looking for a player, top prospect and pick for Drouin.

Yikes

Wideman + Shinkaruk + 7th

Done.