I’d be more comfortable with the carbon tax if it wasn’t returned as a rebate, but was used to reduce actual emissions. If you can’t afford to maintain your furnace or car to a certain efficiency, maybe basic repairs are subsidized? No idea how that would work. Just asking dumb questions while mailing in a workout
I think the issue with that would be people can't afford the upgrades to a house to make it more efficient, and having governments buy windows and insulation might be politically tough. Maybe one day, but the low hanging fruit is to incentivize those that can afford it to spend the money on efficiency upgrades vs fuel. So if you make the fuel more expensive(with taxes) it makes sense to reduce that. Plus it boosts the economy.
I hate this arguing about whether people come out ahead or behind with the carbon tax.
Unfortunately the conversation has moved to that, because people argue that the carbon tax adds to the cost of living, which has already dramatically increased over the past few years. It's important that people understand how the rebates work.
Fact is, 80% of Canadian households don't pay more in carbon tax than they get back from the rebate. The biggest polluters pay more than they get back, as it should be.
You pay the Tax or you get turned into Soylent Green.
There’s a promising new carbon capture technology being developed at MIT that uses DNA as a catalyst (true story). That could be an alternate use for the recalcitrant.
Unfortunately the conversation has moved to that, because people argue that the carbon tax adds to the cost of living, which has already dramatically increased over the past few years. It's important that people understand how the rebates work.
Fact is, 80% of Canadian households don't pay more in carbon tax than they get back from the rebate. The biggest polluters pay more than they get back, as it should be.
You're inferring that the inflationary aspect is what's hard to place a monetary value to, once transportation and energy and such is put into play before the direct money in/money out is put into play.
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There’s a promising new carbon capture technology being developed at MIT that uses DNA as a catalyst (true story). That could be an alternate use for the recalcitrant.
I am assured that these are words.
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I came here to post this. It’s unbelievable that it hasn’t been out until now. I’m assuming someone just unearthed it because if I were the Liberals I’d be playing that 24/7.
I think clips like this may be SOMEWHAT helpful to the Liberals in this regard, but in reality I do think they are fighting an uphill battle in regards to the perception and the implementation of this.
Virtually everybody has noticed an increase in costs, inflation pressures and more. A lot of things are being blamed for this and one of them is carbon taxes, government fee's and more. Right or wrong, virtually everybody is using this to justify increases and it's hitting the pocket book bad.
You have the federal government coming along and telling Canadians how lucky they are that they have this carbon tax, and how they are WAY better off with it and how for ALMOST everybody, the rebate is higher than the actual tax being paid. In reality that isn't the case, or at least it doesn't feel like that. People ask...."If I am way better off, why not apply a carbon tax/rebate to everything so I am WAY better off than I was before? The government doesn't have an answer .
Another potential way to look at it is housing prices and values across the board. Given the rapid increase in prices for the last 20+ years, your average homeowner should STFU about things because on paper they are all rich. Making bank, rolling in dollars, lot's if of millionaires and more. In reality that isn't the case an a lot of people are really struggling, or they don't feel like they are ahead in the game. A LOT of people always talk about their home prices and what they sold their random little box for, but then are forced to upgrade into a more expensive house, a larger mortgage and more. The feeling of wealth just doesn't transfer in a lot of ways.
This idea of the wealth affect and it's transfer was one of the main ideas behind quantitative easing and the cheap money supply we had post 2001 terror attacks, 2008 financial crisis and 2020 Covid. The notion that raising asset prices, equity and stock market's, homes and more would lead to a "wealth affect" and improve the economy is hard to really see.
So when the Liberals brag about how well everybody will do with this carbon tax rebate and how they are better off, your average Canadian will see how a prime rib roast is $100, a fuel fill up is $80 in a SMALL car and their shake and bake chicken seasoning, which is just bread crumbs/seasoning, has doubled in price in 2 years. They aren't feeling rich despite the government saying so.
Interesting times all around
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Ok, what's your opinion on the clip of Marlaina saying good things about the carbon tax?
And in her own words saying it’s good, whereas she tried to claim it was “inhumane” at committee this week. To think that between her making these comments and Scott Moe saying they looked at other options and the carbon tax was cheaper to implement, we’ve clearly found two April Fool’s.
Not surprising this came from Guilbault, who likely got the excerpt provided by a Liberal diehard, and regurgitated without any context of the discussion at hand in said video.
So now that we have some context added in, you will note in the climate change podcast that Danielle Smith has several opinions, which honestly are very moderate and the video itself was very informational and productive (watch without political blinders and you may see this)
A few of her opinions:
There is political consensus that carbon pricing is the best method of combating climate change
Renewables are great, but wind is unreliable and a poor option to depend on (Danielle Smith far prefers hydrogen and nuclear, and wishes to have a hydrogen car in the future)
43 minutes in is where her comments come in which is a question about the structure of taxes and the effectiveness of rebates such as the one the federal government implemented. Danielle Smith even states that due to not commuting (in 2021 where this whole pandemic thing occurred seemingly forgetten) that she herself as a family saw more money coming in than coming out (as most would have experienced in 2021). As Ross McKitrick, professor of economics at the U of Guelph explains, the tax the way it's implemented is not optimal, doesn't reduce the distortions with the implementation of the tax, and that the tax as implemented (with rebates not provided to businesses according to McKitrick) is not revenue neutral as a result of other impacts on the economy. The video also talks about net zero carbon emission, which explains how it eventually will mean mass reduction of fossil fuel use but that the technology just hasn't made it feasible without repercussions. Also conveniently omitted is the part at 1:16:00 where the question arises about how high carbon tax can cause an additional 22 billion deficit due to the effects it would have on the industries it targets as stated by McKitrick.
It may also be a shocker for some to learn that carbon tax was not quite the hot ticket issue in 2021 as we had a few other pressing priorities at the time, most notably cost of living and inflation was not running away yet. If we recall O'Toole came out to support a carbon tax as well in 2021. Opinions change as realities start to set in, which is why Liberal poll numbers are in the tank compared to 2021, 2019, 2015. The April 1 2024 carbon tax hike is extremely unpopular, yet polls suggest that carbon pricing in some form is still widely supported by Canadians. It's clear that it's not carbon tax or carbon pricing itself being an issue, it's the increases, high visibility that doesn't account for cost of living concerns. The reality of 2024 as we see yet another increase on carbon tax is far different than the 2021 reality where the carbon tax was significantly less.
Unfortunately, as Liberals showed with their carbon tax carve out for heating oil to pander to their base in Atlantic provinces, the carbon tax has proven to be politically incentivized where convenient. Canadians rightfully see the carve out, where natural gas is taxed while home heating oil is not as unfair and unjustified. As such, it's become a political rod of controversy which politicians and Canadians will rally against.
So while the myopic ones are looking at this video and regurgitating it as a "gotcha Marleina!", the reality is quite different and I don't see see a particular change of stance of opinions but a change of conditions. But don't let reality stop good old partisan mudslinging and parroting tweets from a radical environmentalist posting a video of someone who was out of politics at the time of that video offering positive personal anecdotes.
"Marleina likes carbon taxes nyah nyah!"
Last edited by Firebot; 04-01-2024 at 10:54 AM.
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I think even when she is trying to be reasonable it is still Smith, wishful thinking around technology that doesn't exist, so they can try to avoid the reality that there will be costs and implications of moving over to a new technology that does exist and has fewer negative externalities but isn't necessarily a market driven change.
(I'm talking about hydrogen fueled personal vehicles).
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My favorite is what she said before doesn't matter cause she wasn't in politics hahaha
If anything, what is said outside of political establishment is usually 100% more true and honest than whatever is said when they're getting paid sitting behind the desk.
The mental gymnastics anf absolute damage control that Firebot feels he needs to firehose with Danielle's comments is truly admirable. I guess when you can't possibly think that the simplest answer is the right one, you must perform a complex ballet of 4D chess.
I'm sure firebot is aware of that danielle says whatever needs to be said so she can maneuver politically in her favor. A classic tale of a seasoned political grifter.
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