Restoring old LRT cars could save Calgary millions
By Richard Cuthbertson, Calgary Herald January 31, 2011 8:00 AM
CALGARY — As the city debates how the initial instalment of provincial transit cash will be spent, a new option is being floated that might salvage a significant number of LRT vehicles heading for retirement, leaving a larger pot of money to develop southeast transit.
Last week, Bombardier Transportation met with a number of council members, and two aldermen say the company pitched the idea of refurbishing old LRT vehicles that are ending their service years.
If the option does prove worthwhile, it could add 15 years to the life of the aging Siemens U2 vehicles, and cost a fraction of the price to purchase new cars.
Bombardier is currently refurbishing some of Edmonton’s LRT vehicles for about $1 million each, according to the two aldermen, although it is acknowledged Calgary cars are more corroded and have seen more use over the years.
Still, even if the cost is 50 per cent higher, it’s worth a close look, says Ald. Shane Keating.
It would be cheaper than buying new vehicles, which would last longer but cost $3.5 million or more.
If five or six vehicles were refurbished every year, the cost could be included in the city budget, allowing more Green Trip provincial transit funds to go to improving rapid transit in the southeast, said Keating.
JEREMY NOLAIS
METRO CALGARY
Published: January 31, 2011 5:25 a.m.
Last modified: January 31, 2011 12:28 a.m.
As three Calgary aldermen push to extend the LRT free-fare zone one stop south to Victoria-Stampede station, some local businesses near the northwest line are asking for the same reprieve.
Removing fare requirements for Sunnyside station — the first stop after 7th Avenue on the northwest line — would provide added incentive for shoppers in the nearby Kensington district, said Jonathan Kane, owner of The Naked Leaf.
[...]
But Ald. Ray Jones, who is pitching the Victoria extension along with Alds. Andre Chabot and Diane Colley-Urquhart, said the proposal is meant to aid groups hosting events at the BMO Centre on the Stampede grounds.
I have always thought that the set retirement timeframe for the old U2 cars was unfortunate. In my travels to other cities around the world, there are much older trains that are still effectively being used. I realize that our climate take its toll on the cars here more than in some places, particularly where they run largely out of the elements, but retiring an entire fleet because they reach X age even if they can still serve the purpose seems shortsighted.
The free fare zone - absolutely it should include Stampede Park. It won't mean that people from Crowfoot get a free ride, but someone going one or two stops from downtown shouldn't have to pay full fare. With all of the convention space, regular events, and Flames games going on there, it is a logical extension of the free fare zone. This could prove very useful for locals and tourists alike, and wouldn't really cut much into the revenue as the bread and butter would still consist of daily commuters coming from much farther out than Stampede.
I have always thought that the set retirement timeframe for the old U2 cars was unfortunate. In my travels to other cities around the world, there are much older trains that are still effectively being used. I realize that our climate take its toll on the cars here more than in some places, particularly where they run largely out of the elements, but retiring an entire fleet because they reach X age even if they can still serve the purpose seems shortsighted.
It is only shortsighted if it makes business sense to refurbish as opposed to replace. The cost vs. service of both options have to be compared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang
The free fare zone - absolutely it should include Stampede Park. It won't mean that people from Crowfoot get a free ride, but someone going one or two stops from downtown shouldn't have to pay full fare. With all of the convention space, regular events, and Flames games going on there, it is a logical extension of the free fare zone. This could prove very useful for locals and tourists alike, and wouldn't really cut much into the revenue as the bread and butter would still consist of daily commuters coming from much farther out than Stampede.
I'm torn on this one. I can see the arguments both for and against the issue.
It is only shortsighted if it makes business sense to refurbish as opposed to replace. The cost vs. service of both options have to be compared.
I think that the kicker is (if I am reading it correctly) that the refurbishment can be spread out and included in the operational budget. A big purchase of new LRVs would be a capital investment and would be competing for the same dollars as the SE LRT. Obviously we'll still need new LRVs as well, but extending the life of the older ones might make sense too.
The free fare zone is tricky... Stampede Park seems very logical to me. But as the article points out, if you're going to extend it by one stop south for conventions, why not go one stop north for Kensington? Where do you draw the line?
I think that the intention of the free fare zone was/is to act as a quick, free way to get from one end of downtown to the other. Kind of like a daytime business shuttle to help people get to meetings, appointments, etc. on the other side of downtown. By that logic, with all of the conventions and events going on at Stampede Park, it meets the criteria.
Kensington, on the other hand, is largely retail and restaurants (and residential). I would imagine that most of the people they'd like to get down there shopping would be coming from outside of the core anyway and therefore wouldn't have any extra incentive to visit because the free fare zone wouldn't apply to them anyway.
If the Stampede board was smart, they'd have petitioned for this 30 years ago when the ctrain was built. Think about how much $$ they could rake in by selling parking spaces on the grounds to downtown workers that want their car, but don't want to pay for parking + train fare.
I think that the kicker is (if I am reading it correctly) that the refurbishment can be spread out and included in the operational budget. A big purchase of new LRVs would be a capital investment and would be competing for the same dollars as the SE LRT. Obviously we'll still need new LRVs as well, but extending the life of the older ones might make sense too.
That's how it's being framed, especially by Ald. Keating (competing vs. SE LRT) but it's a lot more complicated than that. The refurbishment would be a capital expenditure, the question is how it gets funded and how it is prioritized. Regardless of the funding and prioritization questions, the option that makes the most economic sense should be chosen (refurbishment vs replacement of all or some portion of the U2 LRVs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang
The free fare zone is tricky... Stampede Park seems very logical to me. But as the article points out, if you're going to extend it by one stop south for conventions, why not go one stop north for Kensington? Where do you draw the line?
I think that the intention of the free fare zone was/is to act as a quick, free way to get from one end of downtown to the other. Kind of like a daytime business shuttle to help people get to meetings, appointments, etc. on the other side of downtown. By that logic, with all of the conventions and events going on at Stampede Park, it meets the criteria.
Kensington, on the other hand, is largely retail and restaurants (and residential). I would imagine that most of the people they'd like to get down there shopping would be coming from outside of the core anyway and therefore wouldn't have any extra incentive to visit because the free fare zone wouldn't apply to them anyway.
This isn't the first time this issue has come up. Former Ald. McIver proposed extending the free fare zone to Victoria Park/Stampede a few years ago, but his justification was that the Stampede grounds could be used as a satellite paid-parking location, and then downtown workers could board the train for the rest of the trip.
Also, Kensington businesses would stand to benefit from lunchtime business and traffic if the free fare zone were extended there.
If the Stampede board was smart, they'd have petitioned for this 30 years ago when the ctrain was built. Think about how much $$ they could rake in by selling parking spaces on the grounds to downtown workers that want their car, but don't want to pay for parking + train fare.
Try boarding an inbound train at Victoria Park/Stampede Station during the morning rush.
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Here's some interesting news. As has been mentioned before in this thread, Southland Station is the next in line to be upgraded and extended to four-car length. The interesting part is as follows from the Calgary Transit website:
Quote:
it will be necessary to close the station for a period of time to allow for the removal and replacement of a portion of the existing platform. Calgary Transit will communicate the dates for this station closure at a later date.
Looks like it will have to shut down for as long as it takes to remove part of the platform and replace it so it can be used for service again. Could be a couple or more weeks. We shall see.
More information at the link posted above. Construction starts tomorrow, February 3rd.
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Does anyone drive to the Crowfoot or Dalhousie stations on weekday mornings? I just moved out there and am trying to figure out where I should park if the park 'n ride is full at Crowfoot (or what time I need to get there to secure a spot at the park 'n ride) and if parking is any better at the Dalhousie station. What do people recommend I do to avoid problems?
Does anyone drive to the Crowfoot or Dalhousie stations on weekday mornings? I just moved out there and am trying to figure out where I should park if the park 'n ride is full at Crowfoot (or what time I need to get there to secure a spot at the park 'n ride) and if parking is any better at the Dalhousie station. What do people recommend I do to avoid problems?
Not exactly sure about availability, but one thing to consider is if you live south of Crowchild Trail, it is significantly more cumbersome to access the Dalhousie Park N' Ride lot than if you're coming from north of Crowchild Trail.
As for availability, this is likely to change quite a bit once the Park N' Ride fee no longer applies in April 2011, so it's hard to say.
Also posted in the Funny/Cool Pictures/Videos thread:
Automated LEGO C-Train setup. 2 trains (one old, one new), 3 Stations (Zoo Station, one old downtown, one new downtown). Check out near the end where you can see the LEDs that change colours on the roof canopy of the new downtown station, just like they do on the real version.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to frinkprof For This Useful Post:
Here's some interesting news. As has been mentioned before in this thread, Southland Station is the next in line to be upgraded and extended to four-car length. The interesting part is as follows from the Calgary Transit website:
So THAT'S why they've blocked off the handicap ramp...
Southland station is presently inaccessible to wheelchair bound passengers... something I thought was not very well thought out.
So THAT'S why they've blocked off the handicap ramp...
Southland station is presently inaccessible to wheelchair bound passengers... something I thought was not very well thought out.
Yeah, unfortunate but hard to avoid given that the platform has to be extended in the direction of the handicap access. Actually all the south stations had their handicap access retrofitted into the stations in the '90s. Making all things accessible just wasn't important or seen as necessary back in 1981.
Yeah, it is unfortunate for wheelchair passengers, but really unavoidable, without expensive temporary measures. The platform has to be extended in that direction.
The new ramp from that side will be much nicer than the old one though. Not just an afterthought. THe ramp down will be the width of the entire platform.
The only people who really have the potential to suffer is people who need the ramp, but take the bus to the station. If you are driving, just go to another station until it is complete. Even then, there are almost certainly other bus options to train stations in most situations
__________________
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The only people who really have the potential to suffer is people who need the ramp, but take the bus to the station. If you are driving, just go to another station until it is complete. Even then, there are almost certainly other bus options to train stations in most situations
Screw that. It's just a ten minute wheel through the soccer field, past the ball diamond, and down the alley to the Anderson ramp. When I was handicapped, I had to wheel to school uphill both ways.
Also posted in the Funny/Cool Pictures/Videos thread:
Automated LEGO C-Train setup. 2 trains (one old, one new), 3 Stations (Zoo Station, one old downtown, one new downtown). Check out near the end where you can see the LEDs that change colours on the roof canopy of the new downtown station, just like they do on the real version.
