2017-2018 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[Roof-Daddy]

Well, he's technically replacing Bautista which on paper is about a 3 WAR improvement from last year (-1.7 WAR for Bautista, +1.5 WAR for Granderson).

Not a flashy high profile high risk move, but could end up being great value wise.

Nice to have another left hand bat and a solid veteran with a good clubhouse rep to help bring along Hernandez and Alford for a year.

Sure it'd be great to get a guy like Yelich, but he's gonna cost too much and you can tell the Jays are aiming to build from within long term and are just trying to get by for a few years while the big guns like Vladdy and Bo continue to develop.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Well, he's technically replacing Bautista which on paper is about a 3 WAR improvement from last year (-1.7 WAR for Bautista, +1.5 WAR for Granderson).

Not a flashy high profile high risk move, but could end up being great value wise.

Nice to have another left hand bat and a solid veteran with a good clubhouse rep to help bring along Hernandez and Alford for a year.

Sure it'd be great to get a guy like Yelich, but he's gonna cost too much and you can tell the Jays are aiming to build from within long term and are just trying to get by for a few years while the big guns like Vladdy and Bo continue to develop.

While I agree with everything, the bolded part to me is puzzling. We've gone down this road with guys who had better tools at this point in their careers and it didn't amount to much. What are the chances Granderson turns it around when he's this old? Don't get me wrong, I know they're working towards competing in 2020, but don't sell us a pinto and call it a ferrari. Surely as a team competing for a championship you could do better than Granderson as your everyday outfielder, even for a couple years.

[Roof-Daddy]

I really don't think there is anyone out there that they can realistically (and cheaply) add to the current roster that would legitimately give the Jays a chance to "contend" in a league with Houston, Cleveland, Boston and NY having the rosters they currently have.

Best course of action IMO is to try and squeak out the 2nd wild card without doing anything to damage this teams chances a few years from now when they've hopefully built a young roster from within like Houston, Cleveland and the Yankees have.

[TheAlpineOracle]

This team is such a joke. Your window is now closed and you can’t compete with the Yankees and Red Sox. Time to flip what you have and rebuild. Not these clowns though. Sign a few recognizable names ten years past their prime to try and keep the bandwagon one more year ( and let’s be honest, the local Toronto fans actually in attendance are the biggest bandwagon fans in the world).

Compete or don’t. This is BS. This is the strategy that kept us out of the playoffs for 2 decades.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I really don't think there is anyone out there that they can realistically (and cheaply) add to the current roster that would legitimately give the Jays a chance to "contend" in a league with Houston, Cleveland, Boston and NY having the rosters they currently have.

Best course of action IMO is to try and squeak out the 2nd wild card without doing anything to damage this teams chances a few years from now when they've hopefully built a young roster from within like Houston, Cleveland and the Yankees have.

The best option is to sell and not take at bats away from people for geriatrics likes Granderson.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The most disappointing thing about the off-season is the refusal to sell of Donaldson. He would have had more value with a full season + the possibility of re-signing him. Now his value starts to dwindle. And there doesn't seem to be much optimism for him to be re-signed. So what are we doing here?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

The most disappointing thing about the off-season is the refusal to sell of Donaldson. He would have had more value with a full season + the possibility of re-signing him. Now his value starts to dwindle. And there doesn't seem to be much optimism for him to be re-signed. So what are we doing here?

Exactly. We are doing enough to make it seem like we are still competing. We aren’t. Time to move on. I’d rather be the Rays on a shoestring budget then our current strategy.

[Roof-Daddy]

If this team can't compete for the 2nd wild card this year, they will sell off some assets during the season I imagine. Including Granderson.

[Jiggy_12]

Granderson 1 year 5 mil? In isolation pretty meh. Low risk, low to middle reward.

What I always find odd about these signings, is the immediate reaction to piss on it from the fans. Nobody is saying this is the grand master plan. Nobody is saying it's their last OF signing.

It's almost as though the Jays shouldn't sign a single depth player until and only until they land their permanent solution or superstar player.

It's a depth signing. To address an area of weakness. If this is the last addition they make to the outfield then I will join in with the negative sentiment, but until then let's hold our breath and our frustration.

[Roof-Daddy]

The Jays have replaced:

Goins 29 (-0.2 WAR)
Barney 32 (-0.7 WAR)
Bautista 37 (-1.7 WAR)

-2.6 WAR total

with:

Diaz 26 (-0.7 WAR) <-3.5 WAR in 2016 though
Solarte 30 (1.3 WAR)
Granderson 36 (1.5 WAR)

+2.1 WAR total

That's a potential 5 win gain, maybe even more if Travis/Tulo can stay healthy or Diaz bounces back to his 2016 form.

Plus the top three cost $21.5 million, where as the bottom three will cost $10 million and overall are younger.

These off-season moves so far aren't bad at all, whether you want the Jays to sell or not.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

The most disappointing thing about the off-season is the refusal to sell of Donaldson. He would have had more value with a full season + the possibility of re-signing him. Now his value starts to dwindle. And there doesn't seem to be much optimism for him to be re-signed. So what are we doing here?

Moustakas is out there as a ufa so is Frazier.

Machado is available as well.

Not a great market for 3rd basemen. Maybe they tried and figured it was better to keep him. Orioles didn't like the market for Machado at all. Teams are holding onto their top prospects.

If I was Donaldson Id be trying to get a long-term deal done with the Jays. They haven't signed any long term deal, imo clear sign they're going to build within. Acqtuisations like Solarte are a bridge to the next wave.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Granderson 1 year 5 mil? In isolation pretty meh. Low risk, low to middle reward.

What I always find odd about these signings, is the immediate reaction to piss on it from the fans. Nobody is saying this is the grand master plan. Nobody is saying it's their last OF signing.

It's almost as though the Jays shouldn't sign a single depth player until and only until they land their permanent solution or superstar player.

It's a depth signing. To address an area of weakness. If this is the last addition they make to the outfield then I will join in with the negative sentiment, but until then let's hold our breath and our frustration.

Granderson is not a depth player. He’s going to be an every day outfielder on this Jays team. Did you like Upton? They just signed his clone that will actually start for us.

What single thing have the Jays done in the past two years to give anyone any reason not to be negative? Their GM literally got up at a media event a few months months ago and said despite telling everybody last year they were going to continue to contend, they really had no intention and they only made the signings they did to avoid “fan backlash”. He just told every single Jays fan he pissed an entire season away just to keep the belief on the bandwagon to sell tickets for another years.

Contend or don’t. Their current strategy is total BS and doesn’t have a damn thing to do with baseball. To me the strategy should be to sell anything of value and start to build a team around in Bichette and Guerrero for 3 years down the road. Better start with pitching, because I highly doubt Sanchez and Stroman will be still in Toronto when these guys are ready.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Moustakas is out there as a ufa so is Frazier.

Machado is available as well.

Not a great market for 3rd basemen. Maybe they tried and figured it was better to keep him. Orioles didn't like the market for Machado at all. Teams are holding onto their top prospects.

If I was Donaldson Id be trying to get a long-term deal done with the Jays. They haven't signed any long term deal, imo clear sign they're going to build within. Acqtuisations like Solarte are a bridge to the next wave.

If you are Donaldson, why would you want a long term deal with the Jays? He was a very late bloomer who doesn’t really have all that much time at his prime left. He’s going to want to maximize his value to make up for the many years he made peanuts at the start of his career and he’s going to want to play for a team that is capable of winning now. For that reason, I think there’s next to no chance he re-ups in Toronto. The only thing the Jays have going for them is that I think Rogers Center inflates his stats a little and he is probably well aware of that, but he doesn’t strike me as a guy that would put stats over winning so it’s probably a mute point.

[TheAlpineOracle]

The Pirates just gave McCutcheon away for not very much at all and even retained a lot of his salary. If the Jays are actually going for a wild card, something like that makes a lot more sense than Granderson.

[Jiggy_12]

As usual, Stoeten sums it up much more eloquently than I ever could. NSFW for language

https://bluejaysnation.com/2018/01/1...nto-blue-jays/

[GirlySports]

love Granderson, one of my favorite players.

[Parallex]

McCutchen is the bigger name but the performance value of Granderson + the value of assets in trade for McCutchen is probably roughly equivalent. I like Granderson, him plus Pearce will make a damn fine platoon in LF. The Jays should look to upgrade RF and part ways with Zeke.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

McCutchen is the bigger name but the performance value of Granderson + the value of assets in trade for McCutchen is probably roughly equivalent. I like Granderson, him plus Pearce will make a damn fine platoon in LF. The Jays should look to upgrade RF and part ways with Zeke.

They Re-signed Zeke last week. Adnan Virk was on the Fan 960 this morning saying he expects Granderson to start 120 games or more for the Jays. Dont’t really see a platoon situation.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

As usual, Stoeten sums it up much more eloquently than I ever could. NSFW for language

https://bluejaysnation.com/2018/01/1...nto-blue-jays/

Stoeten has turned into a bit of a clown over the past few years. He’s started to be not worth reading anymore, which is sad because he used to be pretty good. Just a jays hype machine nowadays that throws out F bombs to attract the Vice News Type crowd. When this team is sitting at the bottom of the AL East for the next few years and the bandwagon is completely empty again, he’s going to have a hard time getting page clicks from long time Jays fans that don’t appreciate being told they are stupid for questioning what this team does.

He might have a point that Granderson was a good signing if we were contending, had a good outfield, and he was being used as a depth pickup. I’d like that signing that too. But he’s completely ignoring that as it stands now, we aren’t contending, Granderson will be a starter in one of our corner position, and he doesn’t address any of our current needs which is to get younger, hit for better average, and improve fielding. In fact, he’s the exact opposite of that.

I’m not even crapping on Granderson the player, I’m crapping on the fact that this has zero strategic direction. Looks like Rogers will not accept a full rebuild in their last few years of ownership to me. Ride this cash cow into the sunset. Refuse to break budget when you are almost at a World Series Level and then refuse to rebuild when its clearly obvious your window has closed. Just frustrating as a fan. MLSE buying this franchise can’t come quick enough. May not spend as much as Rogers but at least they will have a real baseball strategy and follow it without deviation.

Not moving Donaldson was ridiculous. Sure they can move him at the deadline like Stoeten says, but it will be for way less value and what happens if Donaldson gets hurt again? We get pennies on the dollar and there’s a real chance he gets hurt. He’s battled it his whole career.

[cross16]

I don't think the Jays signed Granderson as their everyday outfielder personally. I agree they will platoon him and given he is still a pretty good RH hitter that does fill a big need for them. Plus provides good competition with guys like Hernandez and Alfrod or even Pompey as they fight for at bats. Move makes alot of sense to me, even though I didn' t like it at first.

It looks to me like the time to trade Donaldson was last summer, and not it probably make more sense to keep him and see what happens rather than trade him. When you look at the prices of what players are going for who are pending FA or have a year left it's not really that impressive. i think the return if they wanted to move Donaldson today would be underwhelming.