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Old 04-15-2019, 01:55 PM   #201
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man four years ago he was finishing up his Midget AAA season, now with some NCAA seasoning and a Hobey Baker under his belt he's making his NHL debut. time does fly
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:56 PM   #202
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Didn’t Subban debut and do well in the 2010 playoffs for the Habs? I know he was a big part of that run and I could be wrong but I thought he was similar to Sam and joined the team after his junior squad was eliminated then played a decent role for the Hans who beat the Caps and Pens shockingly that year as a 88pt 8 seed
I believe Subban played the whole season in Hamilton (AHL) before being called up .
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:02 PM   #203
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Flames will do better in Colorado as they wont be able to try and line match so much ... i feel that was the main problem in game 1 and 2 was matching McKinnons line all night was just tiring out Backs, Chucky and Fro while keeping Johnny Money and Lindy off the ice.

Avs win Game 1 and 2 on strategy (Split going back home) and Calgary better get back to being Calgary and force Colorado to match.

Depth is only good if you use it

GO FLAMES GO!!!!!!!!! JUST WIN THIS ONE!!!
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:07 PM   #204
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Not sure if I can stand to watch this one. Game 1 I was out having Korean BBQ with my girlfriend's group of friends. Guess I have to make reservations, get that same group of people again, try to remember exactly what I ordered.

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Old 04-15-2019, 02:12 PM   #205
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Not sure if I can stand to watch this one. Game 1 I was out having Korean BBQ with my girlfriend's group of friends. Guess I have to make reservations, get that same group of people again, try to remember exactly what I ordered.

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Three cocktails because it's game three.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:13 PM   #206
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Not sure if I can stand to watch this one. Game 1 I was out having Korean BBQ with my girlfriend's group of friends. Guess I have to make reservations, get that same group of people again, try to remember exactly what I ordered.

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That could be expensive but worth it for 15 more wins....

CON-SMYTH= YOU if it works
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:14 PM   #207
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Oh boy. The homerism is strong in this one.

Valimaki had a great year. He's right on track for overperforming his 17th overall selection. And he's got some nice tools and hockey sense. But he's never been considered the same tier of prospect as Makar. You wouldn't offer him to the Avs for Makar and expect them to take that trade.

And using generalizations about NCAA players is missing the point, he's not an average NCAA player. Here's a list of ALL U21 Hobey Baker winners.


Paul Kariya
John Gaudreau
Jack Eichel
Cale Makar

So maybe you need to admit he's not just an ordinary prospect. Even Zach Werenski and Charlie McAvoy didn't dominate that league as much nor were they drafted so high, and they jumped right into the NHL as top pair defenseman. McAvoy right into the... you guessed it... playoffs. Werenski's team wasn't playoff eligible when he signed, but he probably plays for CBJ in the 2016 playoffs too. Instead he had to settle for playing for Jared Bednar and leading them to the Calder Cup in the AHL as their #1D.



Girard wasn't hurt two nights ago when Bednar was raving about Makar. Bedner, who we see above knows a thing or two about defensemen straight out of the NCAA.



Valimaki is by your warped definition an "AHL level player" too though.

You're overvaluing NHL experience. Especially in April when a lot of these guys are fully dialed into their games, as opposed to October when all players, not just prospects but seasoned vets, have a lot of rust in their game that gets mistaken for inexperience. Yeah, the NHL playoffs are fast, and a huge step up. But elite talents make that adjustment quickly, and Makar is an elite talent.

Makar would be playing whether Girard were injured or not, it's not really a matter of depth, it's a matter of adding an elite talent to your lineup.

That said Calgary should be able to neutralize him and anyone else on the Avs not named MacKinnon because we have a damn good team.
We'll see about all this... considering the best dman in the league wasn't drafted at all I would hold off on crowning a guy because he was picked high and was stellar in the NCAA. He is a better prospect at the moment I guess, time will tell who is the better NHLer
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:18 PM   #208
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That could be expensive but worth it for 15 more wins....

CON-SMYTH= YOU if it works
I'm already getting fat.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:22 PM   #209
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We'll see about all this... considering the best dman in the league wasn't drafted at all I would hold off on crowning a guy because he was picked high and was stellar in the NCAA. He is a better prospect at the moment I guess, time will tell who is the better NHLer
Of course time will tell.

I don’t understand why we can’t respect high end talent because they don’t play for our team. You can admit another player is good, it’ll all be okay. We aren’t going to take away anyone’s jerseys.

I saw the kid play live in Buffalo once, after watching as much video as I could because I liked the player so much. He’s really good.

Stick to the game plan. Go Flames Go.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:26 PM   #210
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I'm already reserved to the fact that the Calgary kid Makar will play well and even score a goal tonight. It's the playoffs and things like this always happen.



However, Makar should not change this series on his own and if he does, then we've over rated the Flames grossly.


Ya it feels like an inevitability honestly. The kid is good, Flames should be aware of him. Especially when he jumps the zone.


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Old 04-15-2019, 02:34 PM   #211
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Too many chicken#### overly negatively worry warts come out during the playoffs to spout doom and gloom after a loss. Have some confidence in a great team bouncing back. They need the support and belief of the fans. Hopefully the good energy will rub off. The best news is that Mike Smith has found his game again. This team could win the big silver shiny thing with a bit of luck.
I think it's worth noting that during the 2004 playoffs we watched every other game in the Dome, and lost every one until the final game in the 3rd round when we won the Western Conference against San Jose.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:34 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
Oh boy. The homerism is strong in this one.

Valimaki had a great year. He's right on track for overperforming his 17th overall selection. And he's got some nice tools and hockey sense. But he's never been considered the same tier of prospect as Makar. You wouldn't offer him to the Avs for Makar and expect them to take that trade.

And using generalizations about NCAA players is missing the point, he's not an average NCAA player. Here's a list of ALL U21 Hobey Baker winners.


Paul Kariya
John Gaudreau
Jack Eichel
Cale Makar

So maybe you need to admit he's not just an ordinary prospect. Even Zach Werenski and Charlie McAvoy didn't dominate that league as much nor were they drafted so high, and they jumped right into the NHL as top pair defenseman. McAvoy right into the... you guessed it... playoffs. Werenski's team wasn't playoff eligible when he signed, but he probably plays for CBJ in the 2016 playoffs too. Instead he had to settle for playing for Jared Bednar and leading them to the Calder Cup in the AHL as their #1D.



Girard wasn't hurt two nights ago when Bednar was raving about Makar. Bedner, who we see above knows a thing or two about defensemen straight out of the NCAA.



Valimaki is by your warped definition an "AHL level player" too though.

You're overvaluing NHL experience. Especially in April when a lot of these guys are fully dialed into their games, as opposed to October when all players, not just prospects but seasoned vets, have a lot of rust in their game that gets mistaken for inexperience. Yeah, the NHL playoffs are fast, and a huge step up. But elite talents make that adjustment quickly, and Makar is an elite talent.

I'm a homer because I'm stating a fact - the Flames have better depth than the Avalanche? Sure thing pal. This self righteous narrative you're concocting that I'm somehow saying Valimaki is better than Makar or that Makar is an average prospect is maybe the poorest attempt at deflecting from your weak argument I've seen on CP all season.

I stand by my comments that Valimaki is 100% more well equipped to step up and contribute in this series than Makar based on his seasoning this year and well rounded skill set. Players need time to adjust to the pro level and will certainly be flawed players until they do so. I have no doubt he can skate and contribute offensively, being able to make all the plays, in all three zones, at playoff speed, without hurting your team, is an entirely different animal and one that is clearly completely lost on you. He can and likely will be the better of the two players but money to be earned and money made are not the same thing. There's a long list of hobey baker winners that didn't live up to their hype, especially at the defensive position.

You want to talk warped views:

You've stated Makar is a top 4 NHL defenceman and he hasn't even played an NHL game. You've also stated that he's tracking to be a superstar and again he hasn't even played an NHL game. You also neglect the fact that there is no precedent of an NCAA defenceman leaping straight into the league, in the playoffs no less, and establishing themselves as an elite talent immediately as you're suggesting.

I already mentioned McAvoy jumped in and is pretty much the only one to do so. His contributions only further reinforce that a player like this going to contribute but certainly will be a flawed player until they acclimatize to the NHL over the course of a few months. Like the Avalanche and their lack of depth this year, the Bruins had no choice but to bring him into the lineup as they were decimated by injury. This is not the same as injecting a Jack Eichel, Zach Werenski level of player into your lineup in October, where the stakes are low and there's time to ease into the game. The jump from defending in the frozen 4 competition to the defending in game 3 against the western conference leading Flames shouldn't be lost on anyone.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:36 PM   #213
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Ya it feels like an inevitability honestly. The kid is good, Flames should be aware of him. Especially when he jumps the zone.


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I get that Cale Makar is an elite prospect and all, but he has just been playing in NCAA within the week. Im sure he will adjust but it got to take some time. If anything he may prove to be a liability for the Aves for this game if he plays much. Or am I off my rocker?
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:38 PM   #214
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You want to talk warped views, you're overvaluing his buzz and neglecting the reality of the situation:

You've stated Makar is a top 4 NHL defenceman and he hasn't even played an NHL game. You've also stated that he's tracking to be a superstar and again he hasn't even played an NHL game. You also neglect the fact that there is no precedent of an NCAA defenceman leaping straight into the league, in the playoffs no less, and establishing themselves as an elite talent immediately as you're suggesting.
- I said he would play in the NHL playoffs, not that he would play in the top 4
- I said he's tracking to be a superstar, but I never said he is one now. Key word - Tracking.
- The precedent does exist. Charlie McAvoy.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:38 PM   #215
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I think rolling 4 lines will be good. and I hope that the mackinnon line goes against Bennett and Janko, Bennett is one of our forwards who can actually almost skate with Mackinnon and that line is great on the cycle and could be instrumental in penning Mackinnon in his own zone.

Time to change the story from "how do we deal with one player" to "make them deal with our 4 lines and active D"
I think Backlund, working in tandem with Frolik, are the best players to shut down MacKinnon.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:43 PM   #216
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I think Backlund, working in tandem with Frolik, are the best players to shut down MacKinnon.
What changed in game 2? Backlund was good in game 1 (54%) but was cratered in game 2 (27%). Did Rantanan play with MacKinnon all game 2? I didn't really notice.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:59 PM   #217
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What changed in game 2? Backlund was good in game 1 (54%) but was cratered in game 2 (27%). Did Rantanan play with MacKinnon all game 2? I didn't really notice.
I think it was the change to a very physical and aggressive style of the Avs which threw are team off their game. I can't say what the Avs lineup was. Perhaps Backlund was overworked or trying to do too much.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:05 PM   #218
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[QUOTE=peter12;7080365]Not sure if I can stand to watch this one. Game 1 I was out having Korean BBQ with my girlfriend's group of friends. Guess I have to make reservations, get that same group of people again, try to remember exactly what I ordered.

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Old 04-15-2019, 03:06 PM   #219
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Not sure if I can stand to watch this one. Game 1 I was out having Korean BBQ with my girlfriend's group of friends. Guess I have to make reservations, get that same group of people again, try to remember exactly what I ordered.

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Three bottles of Chongju as this is game three, and Flames will win 3 - 0.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:06 PM   #220
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I've doing this all day so far....


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