Brad Treliving needs to go

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think the Flames pull off a trade for Eichel.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

That would be fantastic. I’m all in on that, frankly. I do think it’s harder now to get the dollars to balance out.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This will be the first full season with an accomplished NHL coach

That point is not in dispute, is it?

Maybe but I sure hope that's not what the "wizard" is thinking. One of the big three needs to be traded. My guess is Chucky, it's been way too silent. No takers for Monahan with his injury history, hopefully a new deal for Johnny.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Thank goodness that the Flames traded away the losers who couldn't get it done back in the day - Mullen, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, MacDonald, Loob, Otto, Peplinski... Oh wait, they didn't.


Instead, they added to that core, and eventually won the cup.


I honestly don't see the point of HAVING to move Gaudreau, Tkachuk or Monahan - anyone left that is considered the core? Lindholm? Backlund? Who's keeping Calgary from winning the cup here?


Flames have done a lot of changes. I think of as today - and including having Darryl as the coach for a full season (plus the last 1/3rd season to get the process rolling) - that the Flames are better than they were last season. I also think that part of why the Flames have been under-performing is due to poor coaching.


There has been a lot of moves. I am willing to trade any of the core (or anyone else) in order to make the team better. I just don't think there is anyone in particular that NEEDS to be moved out. I don't think they are a contender yet, but they are a better team. If they can find a way to improve, I hope they do it, including moving absolutely anyone on the team. I just don't see it as having to 'break up the core'. You just need to keep adding to them, and if there is a good trade, then yeah, go ahead and trade one out.


I am not going to believe that this coming season is going to end up in bitter disappointment because the same players from the core are still here.


Edit: What I mean by a lot of moves is a lot of roster turnover - 3 important D in Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton which were all considered part of the core at one time or other, as well as lots of roster turnover over the years, bringing in players like Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev and Markstrom. I don't think this is a contender yet, but I don't see it as a problem of "at least one from the core must go"! Why? How does that make sense? I just don't get it. How do you know at least one must go? Which one? Which one is stopping the Flames from winning a cup here? Which is the bad apple holding everything back?

[Lanny_McDonald]

It’s day one…

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I didn’t hear him, what did he say?


That anytime you have an opportunity to improve your roster that you have to look at it?

No, it was a new piece of Jargon. "We will see if the trade market bears fruit."

He didn't sound like he was done. Reminded me of the pre Hamilton trade Treliving

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This will be the first full season with an accomplished NHL coach

That point is not in dispute, is it?

Yep fair point. I suppose a full preseason with Sutter should instill some more of his tactics. It just seemed like a lot of the same issues were present late in the season last year with months of Sutter coaching, which leaves me somewhat skeptical that this core has what it takes. This is the best coach they have had,
I just wont be fooled by this core of players again.

[868904]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I don't quite understand how people can still have faith in this core of players. They have shown time and time again that they simply do not have what it takes to win?

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund. They have shown us consistently, over and over, that they are not capable of bringing their game to another level.

Gaudreau - NCAA Champion, WJC Gold Medal, USHL Champion (he was the best player on those teams)
Tkachuk - OHL Champion, Memorial Cup Champion
Backlund - Captain of Swedish World Championship team

These players are winners, they need help.

Gaudreau IS a big game player. All throughout his career, he has been. Gaudreau was great in his first playoffs, his end to end rush in Game 3 of the Anaheim series got the Flames rolling. He ended up scoring the game tying goal with a minute left, top corner. He's been shut down in recent years because teams have learned if you key on Gaudreau, you can shut the Flames down. He needs help.
If Connor McDavid can get shutdown in the playoffs, so can Gaudreau. Crosby never won without Malkin. Hell Lemieux never won without Jagr. Gretzky couldn't win without Messier. You can't rely on one guy in hockey, unless it is a superstar goalie.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by 868904

Gaudreau - NCAA Champion, WJC Gold Medal, USHL Champion (he was the best player on those teams)
Tkachuk - OHL Champion, Memorial Cup Champion
Backlund - Captain of Swedish World Championship team

These players are winners, they need help.

Eatbread - MVP of Canada World Championship team

[flames_fan_down_under]

Most established NHL players come from very strong collegiate and junior programs. Their record in the NHL is remarkably pedestrian.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dammage79

No, it was a new piece of Jargon. "We will see if the trade market bears fruit."

He didn't sound like he was done. Reminded me of the pre Hamilton trade Treliving

Most encouraging thing I have heard today.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Eatbread - MVP of Canada World Championship team

Yes!

I am excited about seeing Mang next year

There are a couple of guys who seemed to step to another level after being selected to represent Canada and succeeding on the international stage

Iggy and Brad Marchand come to mind

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I don't quite understand how people can still have faith in this core of players. They have shown time and time again that they simply do not have what it takes to win?

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund. They have shown us consistently, over and over, that they are not capable of bringing their game to another level.

You know it took Alex Ovechkin 6 years to win a playoff round, right?

I wouldn’t go so far as to say no changes are required, but I do think there is a pretty good chance this team can accomplish a lot more than what it had shown over the past two seasons.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That would be fantastic. I’m all in on that, frankly. I do think it’s harder now to get the dollars to balance out.

Depending upon raises I think monahan and dube gets you eichel.

But then you have to replace dube somehow.

I don’t think it’s happening at this point.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You know it took Alex Ovechkin 6 years to win a playoff round, right?

I wouldn’t go so far as to say no changes are required, but I do think there is a pretty good chance this team can accomplish a lot more than what it had shown over the past two seasons.

So going into Gaudreau's 9th season as a Flame, Monahan's 9th and Backlunds 13th they will now have figured it out? Nevermind the fact Ovechkins teams were actually consistently IN the playoffs.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Depending upon raises I think monahan and dube gets you eichel.

But then you have to replace dube somehow.

I don’t think it’s happening at this point.

I am thinking Buffalo might want a bit more than Dube and Monahan.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by 868904

Gaudreau - NCAA Champion, WJC Gold Medal, USHL Champion (he was the best player on those teams)
Tkachuk - OHL Champion, Memorial Cup Champion
Backlund - Captain of Swedish World Championship team

These players are winners, they need help.

Gaudreau IS a big game player. All throughout his career, he has been. Gaudreau was great in his first playoffs, his end to end rush in Game 3 of the Anaheim series got the Flames rolling. He ended up scoring the game tying goal with a minute left, top corner. He's been shut down in recent years because teams have learned if you key on Gaudreau, you can shut the Flames down. He needs help.
If Connor McDavid can get shutdown in the playoffs, so can Gaudreau. Crosby never won without Malkin. Hell Lemieux never won without Jagr. Gretzky couldn't win without Messier. You can't rely on one guy in hockey, unless it is a superstar goalie.

Fantastic moment. They lost that series in 5 games.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

So going into Gaudreau's 9th season as a Flame, Monahan's 9th and Backlunds 13th they will now have figured it out? Nevermind the fact Ovechkins teams were actually consistently IN the playoffs.

No two teams progression is the same, obviously.

You don’t think the guys you point to have it ‘figured out’, or they’re incapable of figuring it out, whatever ‘it’ is in your mind. How would you know? What, if anything, do you know? I think you don’t know what you don’t know.

Go ahead and put yourself in the GM’s shoes. Who has ‘it’ and how do you get them?

(Not interested in your answer)

[GioforPM]

Mario’s first cup was really the Mario and Mark (Recchi) show. Jagr was an 18 rookie (a really good one).

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by TOfan

No two teams progression is the same, obviously.

You don’t think the guys you point to have it ‘figured out’, or they’re incapable of figuring it out, whatever ‘it’ is in your mind. How would you know? What, if anything, do you know? I think you don’t know what you don’t know.

Go ahead and put yourself in the GM’s shoes. Who has ‘it’ and how do you get them?

(Not interested in your answer)

Don't like when people disagree with you? I figured we were just having a discussion. My bad.

Either way I will answer your question: I know what I have seen in terms of results on the ice, a team that continually places in the bottom half of the leagues standings, or when they actually get into the playoffs, often look like a team that gets outworked, and it's the guys getting the majority of the minutes that are the ones getting consistently outworked.

If no two teams progressions are the same then why even mention Ovechkin's team as a reference point ? You brought that up!

[868904]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Fantastic moment. They lost that series in 5 games.

A powerhouse Ducks team and young Flames team. Treliving hasn't done enough to support Gaudreau.

Maybe not all his fault, Sam Bennett was suppose to be a core piece but never developed, maybe Flames are at fault here for rushing him in and also for hiring crap coaches.

All I'm saying, we have guys who have won and have "elevated their games" before. The mix isn't right, that doesn't mean they all suck and can't raise their games.

I think Gaudreau is a keeper. Maybe Monahan isn't but I think it's a bad time to sell him when his value is low. I'm not 100% sure yet on Tkachuk, he played well in the OHL playoffs and Memorial Cup, but hasn't put up the points in the NHL playoffs; however, he has been in impactful player though even without the points.

Backlund has scored a few OT goals in playoffs and championships through various leagues, those are examples of raising his game.

I'm on the Eichel train and I'm ok with Tkachuk, Monahan, Mangiapane being moved in exchange. I'd like to keep Gaudreau cause I think he's an elite player and has another step he can take and Lindholm cause his contract is really good value.