A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[Jbo]

This show/series of books have really come full circle now.

First the book readers were able to spoil those for the show, now the show is spoiling the end, for book readers.

People wanted the show to finally get moving. (Ex. 6 years and 5 books of Dany wandering around rather then getting to the point of taking the fight to King's Landing and to get back home) Now the show is moving way to fast for people. "He got to that place and back in ONE episode!?"

People loved GoT because it subverted the standard fantasy tropes. Now, apparently everything the writers do is fanfiction/service.

Just can't please everyone I guess.

[nik-]

Lets be honest, he's never finishing the books.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Jbo

This show/series of books have really come full circle now.

First the book readers were able to spoil those for the show, now the show is spoiling the end, for book readers.

People wanted the show to finally get moving. (Ex. 6 years and 5 books of Dany wandering around rather then getting to the point of taking the fight to King's Landing and to get back home) Now the show is moving way to fast for people. "He got to that place and back in ONE episode!?"

People loved GoT because it subverted the standard fantasy tropes. Now, apparently everything the writers do is fanfiction/service.

Just can't please everyone I guess.

To be fair, it is possible to create a happy medium between 20 minute long Sand Snake banter and entire weeks of time passing in moments. The current pace is obviously less than ideal, but necessary due to financial and time constraints. Something less than ideal is open to criticism.

Also, the book may end up with an entirely different ending than the show...As a side note, I hope it doesn't and some pompous book readers get the story spoiled. Nothing irked me more than people, who after watching the show, then read ahead and would act all smug because they knew what happened. It was one thing if you'd been reading the books since the 90s, when they came out. Entirely different for people who just started reading after the show came out to act like ass-hats.

[Finger Cookin]

Fandom's weird. A huge group of people like the same story, but they'd rather divide into camps. 98% in common? Let's endlessly argue over the 2% difference. That's the human condition.

I reject these kind of divisions. You like an aspect of the story more than I do? Congrats, you're a Game of Thrones fan. You read the first book over 20 years ago? Congrats, you're a Game of Thrones fan. You just watched the pilot episode yesterday and got hooked? Congrats, you're a Game of Thrones fan. You reject being labeled a Game of Thrones fan because you're a fan of A Song of Ice and Fire? Congrats, you're A Song of Ice and Fire fan and a Game of Thrones fan. You've never watched the show or read the books but enjoyed the hell out of a video game adaptation or a tumblr hashtag? Congrats, you're a Game of Thrones fan.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Fandom's weird. A huge group of people like the same story, but they'd rather divide into camps. 98% in common? Let's endlessly argue over the 2% difference. That's the human condition.

I reject these kind of divisions. You like an aspect of the story more than I do? Congrats, you're a Game of Thrones fan. You read the first book over 20 years ago? Congrats, you're a Game of Thrones fan. You just watched the pilot episode yesterday and got hooked? Congrats, you're a Game of Thrones fan. You reject being labeled a Game of Thrones fan because you're a fan of A Song of Ice and Fire? Congrats, you're A Song of Ice and Fire fan and a Game of Thrones fan. You've never watched the show or read the books but enjoyed the hell out of a video game adaptation or a tumblr hashtag? Congrats, you're a Game of Thrones fan.

Read ahead and make smug spoilery comments? Congrats you're an ass-hat.

[puffnstuff]

I would have liked a scene of Tyrion finding and conversing with Bronn to set up the meeting with Jamie.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

I would have liked a scene of Tyrion finding and conversing with Bronn to set up the meeting with Jamie.

They were not physically in the same place. It would have been a scene of both people communicating via messengers.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by blankall

Read ahead and make smug spoilery comments? Congrats you're an ass-hat.

Cecil dropped two posts about Gendry leading up to last nights episode, one without a spoiler tag.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by JFK

Cecil dropped two posts about Gendry leading up to last nights episode, one without a spoiler tag.

Lol. What a bizarre post.

I specifically put it in spoiler tags and stated it was a rumour.

[JohnnyB]

This thread is lame now. Can we make things lighthearted and fun again?

One thing I wonder about, there are more and more indications of the intelligence of the dragons. In the last season Tyrion referenced that they might be more intelligent than people. So what do the dragons want out of all this? Are they just like pets that go along with everything, or is there potential for them to exert their own will in pursuit of their own goals as this goes along?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by JFK

Martin's guiding hand? Lord almighty. That's the biggest tumor of a post in the most cancerous thread on Calgarypuck. Martin needs someone to guide him through his own novels, much less him helping a TV show.

Episodes four or five have been two of the best back-to-back episodes of the series and to nitnick it endlessly it's rather tiresome. You can go back and nitnick any episode from any season. People just complain and whine the longer a series go. A guy like Tinordi is just a wet blanket and will some thing to cry about, just the kind of poster he is.

The accelerated pass was surprising but I didn't find it jarring at all. It was only three weeks ago some posted wondering how they would wrap up the series with only X amount of hours left because episodes one and two were rather slow.

Things are winding down, there are less characters and the ones who are left are together. Instead of one or two scenes per episode each major character is getting several and loads of screen time, that leads to a faster pace.

I wonder if Jorah and Jon will get the chance to talk about Sam, and I'm curious if Joran recognizes his families sword in Jon's hand.

I think there is some confusion.

I am not a book reader, I very much appreciate the jokes about Martin.

I just think there is a very obvious difference in the show when you compare the showrunner content with the content the showrunners drew from in the books.

I don't think it is as good. Probably because they are showrunners and not fantasy writers.

It's pretty meta if you think about it. Martin pulls some of the best bits from history, the showrunners pull the best bits from martin's books. I just think the show really suffers from not having well fleshed out stories and character and progression to draw on to build their show around.

I am still tuning in like a whipped dog every night to get my fill; I don't yell at my TV or anything. But the show is different and worse now even if it's more superficially entertaining and dazzling. I like dragons hurr durr.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

^ Completely fair assessment.

[Fuzz]

I managed to fall asleep watching it Sunday night, so re-watched it last night. I thought it was a great episode. Danny was channelling Bernie Sanders during her speech on the rock about the rich rolling over the poor.

As for Bronn and Jamie at the start, at first I thought it was BS, but then noticed how far away they were, and it was more of a river. So Bronn probably got Jamie to the surface, but didn't want to be spotted so they went downstream to get clear. Fine with me.

I wonder who is going to get killed in the north of the wall crew? No way they all make it back.

[GGG]

There is a reason Martin never finished his books.

We are watching it. You can't finish the world he set up without leaving the subversive story telling of the early years and falling into several fantasy tropes. yes the show runners have made it more TV friendly this year but the fundamental issue is that we were watching a show that made its name on doing the opposite of what typical fantasy novels would do by killing off hero after hero and not servicing the fans desires.

To do that now Cersai needs to win then the white walkers role through the continent freezing everything. That's the Martin themed ending. King of the Ashes. Since Martin hasn't fimished his books it's pretty clear that he doesn't know how to finish it in a way that doesn't turn it into a regular fantasy trope.

It's not that the Books aren't written, it's that Martin doesn't know how to write a satisfying ending to his book. World building is more fun than world ending

[Azure]

To me it is obvious that they have seriously increased the pace because of the lack of episodes available.

Bumping the seasons to 16 episodes or even 20 would cost more yes, but they could actually build more storylines that way. And I'm not talking about epic battles that require massive resources. Just a better build up to a bigger plot point. Hard to believe HBO was so short sighted.

Yes, I know it is possibly still the best TV show ever made, but that is exactly why you don't waste money. They will make money like madmen off this thing for a long time. You only get to do it once, so might as well do it right.

[Inglewood Jack]

maybe over time it's just getting harder to keep this same cast and crew committed to long and difficult production schedules, so they're getting it wrapped as quickly as possible in order to move on to the bajillion spinoffs that will keep the cash money flowing.

in a series with 8 seasons they're pretty lucky not to have needed to recast a major character, or have them visibly age too much, or even worse have a major showrunner leave and cause the the thing to go off the rails like Walking Dead did halfway through.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by getbak

"I thought you might still be rowing."

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Major fangasm when Gilly said that Rhaegar's original marriage was annulled for another "secret" marriage.

Biggest revelation in Game of Thrones was completely brushed off by Sam who decided to vent about poop instead. Lmfao.

Gilly basically nonchalantly and indirectly confirmed that Jon Snow is in fact not a bastard, and the rightful heir to the seven kingdoms. But of course none of the characters have any ####ing clue.

Tonight was an embarrassment of riches for the fans.

"I thought you'd still be rowing"

HA.
*raises glass to the writers*

Ditto. I liked that. How many seasons has it been?

Originally Posted by steve9981

Finding out Cersei is pregnant with a fourth child goes against the prophecy told to her by Maggy which makes me think two things. If a child is born it would mean she may not die at the hands of her little brother OR she miscarries and this confirms the prophecy and she will eventually die at the hands of her little brother.

I get the impression that shes full of something, but it aint a kid. She needs Jaimie, but more she needs to control Jaimie after his little adventure with Olenna and Tyrion so she pats her stomach.

Spoiler!

In addition to which I think the Cersei/Jamie False Incest Baby numero quatro might be a little bit of foreshadowing for the Jon/Dany incesto baby numero uno...

Its okay if Royalty commit incest right? Thats never happened before?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GGG

There is a reason Martin never finished his books.

We are watching it. You can't finish the world he set up without leaving the subversive story telling of the early years and falling into several fantasy tropes. yes the show runners have made it more TV friendly this year but the fundamental issue is that we were watching a show that made its name on doing the opposite of what typical fantasy novels would do by killing off hero after hero and not servicing the fans desires.

To do that now Cersai needs to win then the white walkers role through the continent freezing everything. That's the Martin themed ending. King of the Ashes. Since Martin hasn't fimished his books it's pretty clear that he doesn't know how to finish it in a way that doesn't turn it into a regular fantasy trope.

It's not that the Books aren't written, it's that Martin doesn't know how to write a satisfying ending to his book. World building is more fun than world ending

Yep, I think this is bang on.

Basically impossible to come up with a satisfying ending to this series that doesn't undermine it in some way.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by blankall

I think it was suggested that Tyrion didn't disclose to anyone that Jaime was at the battle based on how conflicted he looked both before and after the battle.

I also thought in that scene where he was looking through the ashes, he was actively looking for remnants of Jaime. The only way to explain it further would have been to have some kind of internal monologue. Tyrion, during these scenes, is doing his best to keep his cool, while watching his former family and subjects be massacred.

I thought it was a bit more of a reaction to what had happened and the totality of it all. Basically, war is hell. His character has transitioned from a don't give a crap, I'll just drink and screw my life away, to someone who has seen what this giant chess game does to the "world". There was a time where he wouldn't care if bloodlines got roasted so long as there was a cask of wine nearby and some hotties. His...maturation over the seasons is really good to watch. There is some great character development on this show interspersed with great scenes of badassery.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yep, I think this is bang on.

Basically impossible to come up with a satisfying ending to this series that doesn't undermine it in some way.

I don't think it would be hard for him to come up with a ending that doesn't undermine the series. Everything we know about the world and how Martin talks about the world it seems the ending is a (costly) win against the army of the dead followed by going right back into the next cycle of "winter is coming (or equivalent)", fighting for the throne, backstabbing, incest etc.

Problem is that isn't going to be satisfactory or fulfilling to a majority of readers who want a pay off of clean victories and the promise of some sort of potential future utopia. But I don't think that is why Martin may not finish the books. I don't think he cares if people like the ending he writes. He's OK with a response of "all of that just to wind up back at square one? Jerk." He's OK with "well isn't that all tidy and convenient" as well. He'll write what he wants to write.

I think it's simply a case of an author with a heck of an imagination but very little in the way of a concrete outline for the story. He added storylines as they occurred to him because they were fun little additions or a flight of fancy. Now he has so many loose ends to bring together and tie up that without that outline it is a nearly impossible job. It's not so much writers block but a writer being overwhelmed by what he created. Robert Jordan suffered from the same thing though Martin is IMO clearly the superior writer.

The show can wind down easier because it was streamlined and mapped out from the beginning....and they have the ability to build up a plot point for a few shows and wipe out dozens of "key" characters at once to clear the slate for the end game.