Alberta alienation and independence

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

edit: nevermind

Albertans aren't asking anyone for anything

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Boohoo.

Albertan entitlement is all that is wrong with this province.

Yep, that's exactly what the NDP campaigned on too.

"Albertans aren't getting their fair share!"

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Boohoo.

Albertan entitlement is all that is wrong with this province.

How is this entitlement?

Albertans aren't asking for bailouts. We're asking for an effective and efficient market.

"We would like our government to regulate and enforce regulations that are beneficial not just to our industry, but for Canada as a whole"

"Wow um excuse me Albertans you entitled crybabies"

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It's not entitlement to want the government to get out of the way while allowing a stable regulatory environment, which they've failed to do.

You’re not asking the government to get out of the way, you’re asking the feds to intervene to stop the BC government from interfering with the process. Let’s look at this from the other side, say the feds do intervene and BC decides they want to separate as a result, how much closer to completion would that pipeline be?

[octothorp]

Despite one's feelings on climate change, Paris Agreement, Carbon Taxing, etc. there's no denying that the O&G industry is unsustainable long-term, and the only uncertainty is how soon it becomes unsustainable for Alberta. I'd like to see someone, from any party (heck, at any level of government), put forward a serious and ambitious plan for how we achieve the necessary economic diversification to adapt. I don't care if it raises our comparatively low provincial taxes, or if it requires us challenging the federal government on equalization payments. This was my primary reaction to the Olympic bid: anything that spends loads of money in Alberta but isn't directed at these huge, long-term questions isn't money well-spent.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by troutman

Why stop there? I don't trust the Northern Albertans either.

City-States.

Hey!!! I resemble that remark.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Our likely reaction will be to vote out all Federal Liberals. So then we'll be in that fantastic situation where the Liberals will entirely ignore us or become actively and openly hostile because of no electoral prospects here and political advantage elsewhere in turning us into the whipping boy; and the Conservatives will simply take us for granted. Right now at least the governing party is (albeit largely ineffectively) paying some attention to us. But I fear the alternative would be even worse.

That's political Stockholm Syndrome. I don't see how it's helpful at all to our cause to re-elect people who have ineffectively represented our interests so we can continue to get catered to in a half-assed ineffective manor.

The way the polls are looking right now, it's more in our interest to give the opposition every seat possible to unseat the incumbents.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Despite one's feelings on climate change, Paris Agreement, Carbon Taxing, etc. there's no denying that the O&G industry is unsustainable long-term, and the only uncertainty is how soon it becomes unsustainable for Alberta. I'd like to see someone, from any party (heck, at any level of government), put forward a serious and ambitious plan for how we achieve the necessary economic diversification to adapt. I don't care if it raises our comparatively low provincial taxes, or if it requires us challenging the federal government on equalization payments. This was my primary reaction to the Olympic bid: anything that spends loads of money in Alberta but isn't directed at these huge, long-term questions isn't money well-spent.

It depends on the cost of sequestering Carbon from the air is current proposed tech is about $100-$300 dollars. If that gets close to $50 than oil is viable forever or until batteries become cheaper however batteries have their own significant availability issues if widely adopted. So it will be interesting to see if Moore’s law can take care of global warming for us.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

It depends on the cost of sequestering Carbon from the air is current proposed tech is about $100-$300 dollars. If that gets close to $50 than oil is viable forever or until batteries become cheaper however batteries have their own significant availability issues if widely adopted. So it will be interesting to see if Moore’s law can take care of global warming for us.

Shouldn't we be questioning the manufacturing of batteries and power cells, that's not exactly environmentally friendly either.


I mean I get the fixation on carbon, but we can't forget that we are destroying our environment in more then one way.


Frankly the only answer is to genetically create a slave race that only knows how to pedal stationary bikes 24 hours a day at a high rate of speed.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Shouldn't we be questioning the manufacturing of batteries and power cells, that's not exactly environmentally friendly either.


I mean I get the fixation on carbon, but we can't forget that we are destroying our environment in more then one way.


Frankly the only answer is to genetically create a slave race that only knows how to pedal stationary bikes 24 hours a day at a high rate of speed.

The far bigger issue is water pollution, and our western neighbours dump more raw sewage into the water than anyone else in the country. Overall though, we should be far more focused on water quality, cleaning up the messes we allowed and ensuring that we have clean water for the future. It’s far more important and more pressing than carbon, but just doesn’t get the press. Probably because no one has figured out a taxable solution yet.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Shouldn't we be questioning the manufacturing of batteries and power cells, that's not exactly environmentally friendly either.

Batteries are recyclable.


https://www.batterysolutions.com/rec...ries-recycled/

[GreenLantern2814]

If you have a problem with your taxes under the NDP, wait until we have to pay for our own military.

Say we separate. Do we get to stay in NATO? What stops the United States from annexing us and taking our oil? Do we develop a nuclear program?

I'm not learning a new national anthem.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

The far bigger issue is water pollution, and our western neighbours dump more raw sewage into the water than anyone else in the country. Overall though, we should be far more focused on water quality, cleaning up the messes we allowed and ensuring that we have clean water for the future. It’s far more important and more pressing than carbon, but just doesn’t get the press. Probably because no one has figured out a taxable solution yet.

The science is sound on dumping sewage into the ocean.

If you want BC to support pipelines you should stop complaining about dumping sewage in the ocean. The science supports both.

This article is terrible and promotes conflict but it has a lot of good links to studies supporting the dumping of sewage.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/national...ne-alberta/amp

[AltaGuy]

I find the idea of Albertan separation embarassing to even contemplate.

Thankfully, it’s a pipedream, neva-eva-gonna-happen, fantasy scenario promoted by only, well, the most myopic among us.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If you have a problem with your taxes under the NDP, wait until we have to pay for our own military.

Say we separate. Do we get to stay in NATO? What stops the United States from annexing us and taking our oil? Do we develop a nuclear program?

I'm not learning a new national anthem.

Do we need to stay in NATO? Though it would be nice in case Canada decides to invade us.


We could take the 3 billion that we spend on equalization and buy one nuclear bomb from North Korea. Defense problem solved.


Just kidding.


I don't doubt that any notion of separation would come with at least approaching the US in terms of a seat in Norad and some kind of mutual defense treaty.


More likely, if Alberta Separates the province joins the States, and the US would welcome Alberta with open arms since they're so focused on energy independence.


Also I would think its likely hypothetically speaking that if Alberta decides to leave, Saskatchewan would go with.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Do we need to stay in NATO? Though it would be nice in case Canada decides to invade us.


We could take the 3 billion that we spend on equalization and buy one nuclear bomb from North Korea. Defense problem solved.


Just kidding.


I don't doubt that any notion of separation would come with at least approaching the US in terms of a seat in Norad and some kind of mutual defense treaty.


More likely, if Alberta Separates the province joins the States, and the US would welcome Alberta with open arms since they're so focused on energy independence.


Also I would think its likely hypothetically speaking that if Alberta decides to leave, Saskatchewan would go with.

You think that if Albertans finally reach the breaking point of having someone in eastern Canada scuttle Albertans fortune, so they vote to separate ... so that they then sign up to have someone in Washington make the decisions?

That is ludacris

If Albertans voted to separate it would be to stand alone until Saskatchewan and /or northern BC decide to join them.

[RoadGame]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Just wanted to get an idea of your thoughts on Alberta alienation and independence.

Are you frustrated with the federal ineptitude of files important to Alberta?

Would you vote a provincial party that ramps up the rhetoric on Alberta Independence through and after the election next year?

Would you be in favor of holding a peblicite on Alberta separation?

Do you feel aggrieved as an Albertan?

What would it take for this topic to become top of mind for you?

Now if Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba were to leave as a block, you would have resources galore including the financial capacity to develop egress via Churchill (not ideal, but better than land lock!). Maybe Yukon and NWT could be persuaded they would have it better too. Still more resources and more coastline.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Do we need to stay in NATO? Though it would be nice in case Canada decides to invade us.


We could take the 3 billion that we spend on equalization and buy one nuclear bomb from North Korea. Defense problem solved.


Just kidding.


I don't doubt that any notion of separation would come with at least approaching the US in terms of a seat in Norad and some kind of mutual defense treaty.


More likely, if Alberta Separates the province joins the States, and the US would welcome Alberta with open arms since they're so focused on energy independence.


Also I would think its likely hypothetically speaking that if Alberta decides to leave, Saskatchewan would go with.

It's a bad idea for Alberta to separate, and it's a worse idea to join the United States. Congratulations, for 30 pieces of silver we get no health care, the 2nd Amendment, and the 2-party system.

Pass.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It's a bad idea for Alberta to separate, and it's a worse idea to join the United States. Congratulations, for 30 pieces of silver we get no health care, the 2nd Amendment, and the 2-party system.

Pass.

What do you mean no heath care? The province can continue to deliver health care as it always does. The only question on services is is the net amount that Alberta sends to Ottawa after transfers more or less than what it would send to Washington. Heath Care is a choice, the question is would the state of Alberta preserve it or not.

Also at the state level infringing on the second amendment happens consistently and is upheld. Agree with you on the terrible federal political system but if you wanted independence states have much more power than provinces do so maintaining Alberta as Alberta would be possible.

I wouldn’t want to join the states though, I’d be interested in Cascadia as once we were joined with California our dirty oil would be just as protected as theirs.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GGG

What do you mean no heath care? The province can continue to deliver health care as it always does. The only question on services is is the net amount that Alberta sends to Ottawa after transfers more or less than what it would send to Washington. Heath Care is a choice, the question is would the state of Alberta preserve it or not.

Also at the state level infringing on the second amendment happens consistently and is upheld. Agree with you on the terrible federal political system but if you wanted independence states have much more power than provinces do so maintaining Alberta as Alberta would be possible.

I wouldn’t want to join the states though, I’d be interested in Cascadia as once we were joined with California our dirty oil would be just as protected as theirs.

Even if the province continues to deliver health care, it's going to be Americanized. Which is going to make it worse for a lot of people.

Can we buy drugs at Canadian prices, or do we have to stroke the New York Stock exchange a bit and pay the Shkreli price?

Nothing is worth joining the United States of America. They don't say "I'm moving to Canada" for nothing.

Canada is awesome.