09-17-2015, 11:21 AM
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#21
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
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Did they at least acknowledge that this summer was not full of the usual gawd-awful contracts that the UFAs tend to receive?
I don't think what Calgary did was anywhere close to terrible. Same goes for Colorado, for that matter.
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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09-17-2015, 11:40 AM
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#22
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Franchise Player
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ESPN.....diverse mega-panel of 34 prominent hockey statisticians.....ROFL
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09-17-2015, 11:46 AM
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#23
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Normally, my desk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
While it is ESPN, article is written by Rob Vollman. A guy who Rob Kerr brings on Fan 960 regularly.
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And he talked about it yesterday. I actually enjoy the perspective Vollman brings...anywho, Ramo and Bouma were among the worst, but he did qualify this by saying they were the worst amongst a pretty good year for signings. They both received below 50% approval from the "panel" with Ramo being pretty bad at around 20% iirc. Bouma was around 37% approval.
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09-17-2015, 12:09 PM
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#24
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Crash and Bang Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour
And he talked about it yesterday. I actually enjoy the perspective Vollman brings...anywho, Ramo and Bouma were among the worst, but he did qualify this by saying they were the worst amongst a pretty good year for signings. They both received below 50% approval from the "panel" with Ramo being pretty bad at around 20% iirc. Bouma was around 37% approval.
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So basically the panel is full of idiots?
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09-17-2015, 12:16 PM
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#25
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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not to mention asset management.
if the Flames deal either veteran goaltender for anything they have added value versus letting a guy go
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09-17-2015, 12:18 PM
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#26
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Ah... I can see the Bouma signing being on the list. Ramo... its not he's being paid that much and its only 1 year... who cares.
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09-17-2015, 12:33 PM
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#27
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I believe in the Pony Power
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When I think about "bad deals" it is all about how it hurts the organization going forward.
So let's play this out.
- If Ramo isn't good, they walk away after this season. They have the cap space this year. No tangible cost
- If Bouma isn't good it isn't a long-term deal either and at most he is overpaid by a few hundred K. Big deal.
If indeed these represent the "worst" deals - then perhaps the headline and focus of the story should have been how GMs learned from past lessons and didn't hand out bad deals.
That being said - I'm also not an insider so didn't read it.
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09-17-2015, 12:52 PM
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#28
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
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FYI -contributors to the panel were Clare Austin, Steve Burtch, Matt Cane, Scott Cullen, John Fischer, Iain Fyffe, Domenic Galamini, Garik16, David Johnson, Cam Lawrence, Dom Luszczyszyn, Jen Lute Costella, Alexandra Mandrycky, Micah Blake McCurdy, Sean McIndoe, Nick Mercadante, Allan "Lowetide" Mitchell, Phil Myrland, Arik Parnass, Christophe Perreault, Megan Richardson, Alan Ryder, Michael Schuckers, Timo Seppa, Greg Sinclair, Dawson Sprigings, Ryan Stimson, Craig Tabita, Andrew Thomas, Robb Tufts, Josh Weissbock, Carolyn Wilke, Kent Wilson.
I really think the opening didn't convey the extent to which that GMs really controlled spending this year. Should have compared to past years excess.
I'm totally ok with Bouma and Ramo deals as relatively minor overpay when considering that Ramo might be the #1 and Bouma is a heart and soul guy who is making slightly more than his stats would say he is worth.
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09-17-2015, 12:53 PM
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#29
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TEXAS!!
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This is simply ridiculous.
San Jose signed a 34 year old defenceman to a 4-year $4.9m contract, and gave a 34 year old Joel Ward a three year $3.3m contract.
They didn't make a single good free agent acquisition.
But somehow Calgary came out way worse because after acquiring one of the top free agent wingers, they renewed their 1b goalie to a one year "show me" contract, and overpaid a depth player by about $500k?
Laughable.
__________________
I am a lunatic whose world revolves around hockey and Oilers hate.
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09-17-2015, 12:56 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
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So it was a diverse mega-panel of 34 prominent hockey statisticians...and Scott Cullen showed up before the closed the door so they let him stay
__________________
Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
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09-17-2015, 01:03 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969
So it was a diverse mega-panel of 34 prominent hockey statisticians...and Scott Cullen showed up before the closed the door so they let him stay
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Cullen was the only name I recognized
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09-17-2015, 01:06 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacks
Cullen was the only name I recognized
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Just off the top of my head, I recognized Fyffe, McIndoe, and Wilson. Fyffe is a very shrewd guy, and was doing interesting statistical work on hockey years before it became fashionable. McIndoe, on the other hand, is not someone I think of as a stats guy at all. I think of him as Down Goes Brown.
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WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
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09-17-2015, 01:19 PM
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#33
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I believe in the Jays.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss
Ah... I can see the Bouma signing being on the list. Ramo... its not he's being paid that much and its only 1 year... who cares.
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Yeah, but I see the point... spending 3.8M on your second goalie isn't very efficient spending. So taken in a vacumn it makes perfect sense. It's when you factor in the stuff outside the value/dollar aspect that the deal looks better in that it was effectively cap space that would be entirely left fallow anyways and has no negative consequences since it doesn't represent any future hinderance.
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09-17-2015, 01:20 PM
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#34
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Normally, my desk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!
This is simply ridiculous.
San Jose signed a 34 year old defenceman to a 4-year $4.9m contract, and gave a 34 year old Joel Ward a three year $3.3m contract.
They didn't make a single good free agent acquisition.
But somehow Calgary came out way worse because after acquiring one of the top free agent wingers, they renewed their 1b goalie to a one year "show me" contract, and overpaid a depth player by about $500k?
Laughable.
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FFWIW, the criteria (off the top of my head) was it had to be a RFA or UFA signing after July 1st over $2MM a year. So Bieksa would not have been part of that although Joel Ward would have been. And, I agree, the Joel Ward is far worse than the Bouma. I was never a fan of the Ramo signing, but that's because I'm overly optimistic about Ortio.
Oh, and it wasn't a team evaluation, just an individual contract evaluation. The Frolik signing is probably rated pretty high (I can't read the article, just going off of the radio talk).
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09-17-2015, 01:24 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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I love Bouma and I'm glad he's on the team. But the Flames overpaid on that deal. It is far from crippling I was surprised at the dollar and term.
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09-17-2015, 01:32 PM
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#36
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Franchise Player
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Flames didn't overpay for Bouma. But whatever.
I listened to Vollman talk about this on the FAN yesterday. First of all, he did mention several times that there really weren't ANY horrible contracts this year.
He talked about how term was far more dangerous than money and it was term that gets teams in trouble. Then he talked about the 3rd worst contract being Ramo's $3.8M and never mentioned that it was only one year.
I agree that $3.8M was too much for Ramo.
But if that is the worst FA signing we see here, the Flames are in good hands.
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09-17-2015, 01:46 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
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One year deals that don't handicap you in the current season should never be considered a bad deal. It's not your money, what do you care.
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09-17-2015, 01:49 PM
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#38
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In the Sin Bin
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As you can guess by the "diverse" panel of statisticians, Rob Vollman is an analytics guy. So, as usual, he and his echo chamber/panel are looking at things exclusively on the basis of what their spreadsheet says without regard to anything Excel can't tell them.
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09-17-2015, 01:51 PM
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#39
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
Just off the top of my head, I recognized Fyffe, McIndoe, and Wilson. Fyffe is a very shrewd guy, and was doing interesting statistical work on hockey years before it became fashionable. McIndoe, on the other hand, is not someone I think of as a stats guy at all. I think of him as Down Goes Brown.
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Not a stats guy, but he clearly knows hockey pretty well, and once you cut through all of the jokes he actually has well-informed hockey analysis.
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09-17-2015, 01:54 PM
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#40
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakinsaprikin
They used Griess and McElhinney as examples of Goalies with comparable, but better save percentages, over the same period that signed for less then 2 million.
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Anyone who watches hockey and knows a little bit about goaltending know there are numerous reasons these two guys are constantly a foot away from the AHL.
If the Flames had signed one of these two guys and expect him to stay in the NHL all year I can almost guarantee the playoffs go out the window.
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