Anti-Human installation? More like welcome change at Kensington Safeway.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

One of Druh Farrell's lackeys was whining up a storm about it on Twitter as well and is almost certainly why this became "news". Of course, last I saw, he also failed to offer any idea of how to better deal with the problem.

His only argument is its making the space worse/hostile and won't deter those activities. It discourage positive uses(?) which then leads to more negative activity.

I don't see how blocking off a section where literally no one sits on to enjoy a nice afternoon in the Safeway Plaza will increase the negative activity. It's also a grocery store, not a public park. Yes I understand that Safeway has specific zoning to make it a public plaza but it doesn't alter the fact they can't try to fix their issues with the crime in the area.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sorry that you’re bothered by the less fortunate. Life must be very hard for you.

Oh please. As if you'd be ok with it if a bunch of people started using your front yard to harass pedestrians walking past your house. I'm sure you'd bring them out a nice pitcher of lemonade.

And when your mailman complains and your friends complain, I'm sure you'd be telling them that they're awful people that need to care more about the less fortunate.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Oh please. As if you'd be ok with it if a bunch of people started using your front yard to harass pedestrians walking past your house. I'm sure you'd bring them out a nice pitcher of lemonade.

And when your mailman complains and your friends complain, I'm sure you'd be telling them that they're awful people that need to care more about the less fortunate.

If you brought them out a nice pitcher of lemonade I bet they'd rake your leaves, take out your trash and pass you your mail.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Oh please. As if you'd be ok with it if a bunch of people started using your front yard to harass pedestrians walking past your house. I'm sure you'd bring them out a nice pitcher of lemonade.

And when your mailman complains and your friends complain, I'm sure you'd be telling them that they're awful people that need to care more about the less fortunate.

In the unrealistic scenario where this happens, sure I would. It’s the nice thing about outlandish hypotheticals. You know, i’ll even bring them out some sandwiches.

Following this hypothetical, I assume you’re fine with strangers parking in front of your house and on your drive way while coming in and looking through your fridge for dinner.

[OldDutch]

I have no problem dealing with the homeless. They are part of the area we live in and quite frankly have never had an issue with them.

Those aren’t the people sitting out there. In 8 years of living here the vast majority of people panhandling or yelled at me are drunks and crack heads. The last time it wasn’t a homeless woman clutching her baby. It was a teen girl wearing a muppet on her head sketched out. Those types make me uncomfortable and they’re all over that area.

I agree it is not the business responsibility. If people are so in knots then protest the city for a peace officer to sit there during business hours. Anyone want to pay that bill through property tax? I don’t.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In the unrealistic scenario where this happens, sure I would. It’s the nice thing about outlandish hypotheticals. You know, i’ll even bring them out some sandwiches.

Following this hypothetical, I assume you’re fine with strangers parking in front of your house and on your drive way while coming in and looking through your fridge for dinner.

4x4 is super fine with strangers parking in front of his house. You should give it a try sometime.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Honestly, you're blessed with a sunny disposition and a propensity for looking on the bright side. Not all of us are wired that way. If you can put on a smile and click your heels while you skip around crackheads, that sounds like an awesome way to be. For everybody else, these people can be a downer, they can be intimidating, and they can just kind of gross you out. Scoot them away to hang out under a bridge or something.

I don't find "bums" to be disgusting but people like you certainly disgust me.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by icecube

I don't find "bums" to be disgusting but people like you certainly disgust me.

Really. Toothless, unbathed, unkempt, unhygienic, dirty-clothes wearing panhandling alcoholics don't disgust you, but I do. What a Saint.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Really. Toothless, unbathed, unkempt, unhygienic, dirty-clothes wearing panhandling alcoholics don't disgust you, but I do. What a Saint.

Try treating them like a human being and maybe you will be able to find some humanity beneath your disgust.

I think that volunteering for a few days at the Mustard seed would change your view point or at least give you some empathy for people.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Really. Toothless, unbathed, unkempt, unhygienic, dirty-clothes wearing panhandling alcoholics don't disgust you, but I do. What a Saint.

Gee. Think it might be your attitude rather than appearance?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Anti-human installations are scummy, period. Anti-human and anti-community.

Maybe if certain members of our community didn’t spend so much time being afraid of people who are of a lower class than they are, then we could stop worrying about putting in anti-human installations because heaven forbid you get solicited walking into a store.

It’s not those that struggle with homelessness or income that make our communities worse, it’s the people that fear, hate, and look down on those people.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In the unrealistic scenario where this happens, sure I would. It’s the nice thing about outlandish hypotheticals. You know, i’ll even bring them out some sandwiches.

Following this hypothetical, I assume you’re fine with strangers parking in front of your house and on your drive way while coming in and looking through your fridge for dinner.

You're projecting a couple of posters' disdain for homeless people onto Safeway. As has been mentioned by most of the posters that actually shop there, it's not a bunch of homeless people causing the ruckus, it's panhandlers with nothing better to do.

What I said to you in my post was that if this was happening on your property, you would not be ok with it. At least, I would think. Stoned teens, drunks, crackheads, and some homeless people incessantly loitering, begging people on the sidewalk for money, just outside your front door. Pretty much the same thing, except that if people start to avoid your block, you don't lose any money. And you're smart enough to know this. I don't doubt that you see that clearly.

But this looked like a fun internet crusade for a day or two, right? Sliver hates homeless people, so does Safeway, and so do most of y'all!!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 4X4

You're projecting a couple of posters' disdain for homeless people onto Safeway. As has been mentioned by most of the posters that actually shop there, it's not a bunch of homeless people causing the ruckus, it's panhandlers with nothing better to do.

And if I haven’t outright said it once, i’ll outright say it again: this measure impacts the panhandlers less than it impacts homeless people or even actual customers. Have you see the it? Can you explain why a panhandler who is there because it’s a busy location next to a train station is going to say “Oh boy, I can’t sit right there? I guess i’ll go find another place.” because i’ve seen panhandlers set up milk crates to sit on beside drive-thru lanes. They don’t care how friendly the location is to their comfort, only to their earning potential.

I don’t have a problem with Safeway not wanting “stoned teens” and whoever else around their building, do whatever, the problem is that anti-human infrastructure is not selective or effective and it makes communities worse, not better.

[topfiverecords]

Safeway's not losing any money here. Wasting it on rubber, yes. These complainers are just going to the North Hill Safeway instead.

I actually prefer the panhandlers deterring the pretentious. Keeps the lines shorter.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

Try treating them like a human being and maybe you will be able to find some humanity beneath your disgust.

I think that volunteering for a few days at the Mustard seed would change your view point or at least give you some empathy for people.

I think if one of the panhandlers walked a mile in my shoes they'd have empathy for me and would quit harassing me for handouts so they can go get high and not work all day. Raising two kids, working all day, running a business - that's hard. FFS it's 7am on a Saturday morning and I'm getting ready to head in for some work that needs doing while these guys are snoozing off their hangovers.

A panhandler or bum working to turn their life around? I have a ton of respect for, which is why I donate money monthly to a Calgary mental health charity. That's addressing the right problem in the correct way versus enabling panhandling by naively pretending these are acceptable problems we should ignore.

A guy smoking crack and harassing my wife for a dollar as she's trying to load groceries into her trunk after a ten-hour day that followed four other ten-hour days? Yeah, eff that guy.

I understand the big picture of how mental health, addiction, cycles of family violence, etc. can lead to a myriad of problems of which one or more affects many of these people. That doesn't mean I find it acceptable for these people to loiter in front of a private business deterring customers and negatively impacting people trying to earn a living.

I think that volunteering for a few days at the Kensington Safeway would change your view point or at least give you some empathy for the business owner.

[GGG]

Your missing the point. Empathy is different from sympathy. No one is asking you to help them or give them money or feel sorry for them

The way you are posting you are saying they are human garbage who don't deserve to exist.

People are asking you to treat them as human beings with inherent dignity and you can do that and be in favour of moving panhandlers to other areas.

As an aside I used to live in Kensington when I was young a mind single. Part of living in the inner city is sharing it with all of the residents.

[Flamenspiel]

Its absurd to make this political. Its a simple physical security measure the does not discriminate, it prevents families with kids playing there as well. They have every right to do it and its just business.

People have become so soft and offended by everything. President Lyndon Johnson in the US brought in what he called the 'The Great Society", here in Canada, we now have the "Coddled Society".

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

Your missing the point. Empathy is different from sympathy. No one is asking you to help them or give them money or feel sorry for them

The way you are posting you are saying they are human garbage who don't deserve to exist.

People are asking you to treat them as human beings with inherent dignity and you can do that and be in favour of moving panhandlers to other areas.

As an aside I used to live in Kensington when I was young a mind single. Part of living in the inner city is sharing it with all of the residents.

I know what empathy means. I empathize with the business owner. You empathize with the miscreants.

It's not that they don't deserve to exist, but they shouldn't loiter in front of a store driving business away. Go exist somewhere else that doesn't hinder somebody else's right to earn a living.

I default to respecting people until they display disrespectful behaviour. Loitering in front of a grocery store begging for crack money is disrespectful. Not everyone has dignity, btw. Unfortunate but true.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I know what empathy means. I empathize with the business owner. You empathize with the miscreants.

It's not that they don't deserve to exist, but they shouldn't loiter in front of a store driving business away. Go exist somewhere else that doesn't hinder somebody else's right to earn a living.

I default to respecting people until they display disrespectful behaviour. Loitering in front of a grocery store begging for crack money is disrespectful. Not everyone has dignity, btw. Unfortunate but true.

I empathize with both parties. I am pro anti-human measures that are nice looking. What I don't do is consider an entire demographic of people sub-human.

You can hold your position on Pan-Handling and treat the pan-handlers with human dignity. You choose not to and that is quite sad that you promote such intolerance.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

I empathize with both parties. I am pro anti-human measures that are nice looking. What I don't do is consider an entire demographic of people sub-human.

You can hold your position on Pan-Handling and treat the pan-handlers with human dignity. You choose not to and that is quite sad that you promote such intolerance.

Effing right I'm intolerant of being shaken down for money on my way into a store. That's great you don't find it bothersome. Most people do.

Nice looking anti-human measures are expensive. Of course everybody would prefer them to be nice looking. Who is going to pay for that? Safeway? In this economy with competitors nipping at their heals?

I'm not calling them sub human, either, btw. They're human in the exact same way you and I are. That doesn't mean they're worthy of respect, though. Respect is something you earn and it's very easy to forfeit respect, which you do when you smoke crack and harass people for money in front of grocery stores.

[metallicat]

You're sort of making it sound like it's easy to break the cycle they're in. It isn't. The deck has been stacked against them, largely from the time they were born. They have no money, can't get a job, can barely function without drugs or alcohol, and so how do they get out of it? They can either go to public places to look for money or food or booze or go to a park and just get the booze and drugs. I'm not saying it is ok Safeway to solve their problems, but shuffling them off so the NIMBYs can't see them doesn't help either.