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Old 10-09-2022, 10:10 AM   #21
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You prioritize the hell out of the bullpen. That much is obvious.

Schneider I’d welcome back as manager.

The leadership group needs to step up. Vladdy & Bo has been feeling (to me) like Gaudreau and Tkachuck for the past couple of years. I don’t know if they are serious enough about winning or even know how to be serious enough.

I believe they want to win, but not sure they have what it takes to reach the next level
For sure, will they spend money to acquire a quality bull pen?
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Old 10-09-2022, 11:29 AM   #22
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They need to get more relievers who can bring heat out of the bullpen. This pen just couldn't miss enough bats.

It's too bad the Ramirez trade never happened, but I think it's like how after 91 when they made those block buster deals to adjust the makeup of the team. They need a middle of the order Left Handed bat. Forget trying Moreno at 7 different positions....if they guy can catch, use him as a catcher and trade one of Kirk or Jansen. As others note one of Hernandez or Gurriel needs to be swapped out too.

Starting...I didn't think was that bad compared to the league. Paying for free agent pitching just seems like a poor value proposition to me. I think Kikuchi and Ryu are more or less sunk cost. Hope that Ryu can get you thru an order twice every 5 games. Look at Kikuchi as a 2-3 inning guy who follows an opener, and 1 inning guy in between. Look at Berrios and try to figure out why his breaking pitches were so flat at work to fix that.
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Old 10-09-2022, 12:26 PM   #23
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Jays need to trade Teoscar, and acquire a higher end left hand outfielder. (their lineup has issues, with way to many right hand hitters)

Zimmer should be DFA, keep Bradley as the extra outfielder

Jansen is another, who should be traded in the off season.... He had a solid year (could get solid return)

Rookie Catcher should start the year with the Jays

Jays need to acquire another top starter,

However they will need to make tough decisions on a Kikuchi (he should be DFA)

Can they trade Berrios

Can they resign Stripling?

Recently I was thinking Jansen should be the guy to deal high on but I find he’s a calming influence on the pitchers. I think you should be weary of dealing calming influences despite the over achieving. Kirk and him have been exceptional back there. To me Teo, Biggio and Guerriel, in that order, should be the guys you dangle where you’ll likely get a big name for (less Biggio).
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Old 10-09-2022, 05:56 PM   #24
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It's not about number of days rest, you could have an 8 man rotation. It's about facing a batter for the 3rd time that has managers spooked.
Biggest fallacy in baseball.

Yes, batting averages are higher 3rd time through, but if you take your starters out that early, you put too many innings on the bullpen, and they are worse.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:01 PM   #25
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The third time through was much more of a Montoyo problem than a Schneider problem. From August onwards the Blue Jays starters not named White or Bullpen Day almost always went 6 innings, or more if their pitch count was low enough.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:10 PM   #26
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Players have good years and bad years. All players. And this has been true forever.

Yet every single time a player has a down year, there are fans that want to 'sell high'. It's unbelievable.

Guerrero is a generational talent. He had an off year - and was still one of the best hitters in the AL. Talking about trading him now is ridiculous.

It was a tough year for the whole team, they never really got on a roll. I expect next season to be better. But they have to strengthen the bullpen
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:38 PM   #27
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I hate the word generational now. It gets thrown around way to freely and without the accolades to back it up. We hear it overly much from our northern neighbours and it gets thrown around very freely. Vlad is not generational at this point. He’s had four seasons and two were bad and one was decent. He has had one great season and a lot of those stats last year were gained playing in minor league small parks. There are tons of players who most people have never heard of who put up better years than Vlads last year. You know who was generational? His dad but Vlad is not his dad. He doesn’t have a rocket arm or play the outfield and while he has the power and more plate discipline that’s it really.

I hope he bounces back next year but no he wasn’t even close to being one of the best hitters in the AL this year. Unless you’re excited to fall in the 20s. For a guy with his pedigree that’s a disappointment. Maybe it’s a good time to sign him to an extension and hope he bounces back. But if he doesn’t and that bat speed slips at all he could become mediocre very quickly. I’m actually very curious who is going to have a better career of him and Bo. Bo has his issues but he has more room to grow I think and has actually matched him to this date. Hopefully the Jays roll right on their extensions with these two.
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Old 10-10-2022, 08:48 AM   #28
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I think people quickly forget how young Vladdy is and how rare it is for someone his age doing the things he does. Ya he grounds out a lot. He’s also still just 23.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1570193066463567873
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Old 10-10-2022, 10:31 AM   #29
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If Judge hits the market, do you make a push if you’re the Jays?

The core of the team is in its peak window
Every key player is locked up for at least a couple seasons
His marketability is insane
We could use OF help

The Jays may never be better positioned to make a move like they are now. Rogers is clearly willing to spend.
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Old 10-10-2022, 10:40 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Jiggy_12 View Post
If Judge hits the market, do you make a push if you’re the Jays?

The core of the team is in its peak window
Every key player is locked up for at least a couple seasons
His marketability is insane
We could use OF help

The Jays may never be better positioned to make a move like they are now. Rogers is clearly willing to spend.
No, Judge would be way to expensive...

Jays need to add a starting pitcher, spend money on the bull pen

Lastly add left hand batters in the lineup

Judge would be great, however I doubt he would be interested in the Jays
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Old 10-10-2022, 11:32 AM   #31
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I think people quickly forget how young Vladdy is and how rare it is for someone his age doing the things he does. Ya he grounds out a lot. He’s also still just 23.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1570193066463567873
I can't remember... did the teams of these other HOFers also 'sell high' when these players were 23?
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Old 10-10-2022, 11:36 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggy_12 View Post
If Judge hits the market, do you make a push if you’re the Jays?

The core of the team is in its peak window
Every key player is locked up for at least a couple seasons
His marketability is insane
We could use OF help

The Jays may never be better positioned to make a move like they are now. Rogers is clearly willing to spend.
Despite not awesome years from Vladdy and Bichette and Hernandez (the last 2 finished strong), and Springer was hurt a fair bit, the Jays still led most offensive categories for hitting.

Judge is going to sign a $500M deal.

I would rather see the Jays spend their money on more pitching. You can have as many bats as you want, but if you don't have elite pitching, you are not going anywhere in the playoffs.
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Old 10-10-2022, 12:01 PM   #33
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Why not both?

Signing judge would enable you to trade Gurriel or Hernandez for pitching. Also have prospects that can be used to acquire pitching.

If Rogers is willing to open the vaults, why not really go for it?

I agree the easier/more sane route is to let someone else overpay for Judge. But the part of me that wants to see chaos would really love it if the Jays made a push.
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Old 10-10-2022, 12:26 PM   #34
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The frustrating part to me was the lack of deadline help to fill the holes in the roster. Higher leverage arms with strikeout stuff out of the pen was a weakness, and the lineup sorely needed one, probably two capable left handed bats.

If they were serious about winning this season the deadline would have been a great time to address the roster shortcomings. They’re musts this off-season if we expect improvement in a very competitive AL East.
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Old 10-10-2022, 01:25 PM   #35
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This team's batting line up has put up gawdy numbers in inconsistent ways two seasons in a row. I just don't think you need to add anything to it as it stands. The only real positional thing the Jays seem to have going into the off-season is how to convince Bo to let the short-stop dream die.


I just don't think you have any real things to work on other than fixing the bull pen and stabilizing the rotation. This is the third off-season in a row we've got to the end of October and said the same thing. They haven't ignored the issue, but obviously they need to attempt some over-kill to fix it.
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Old 10-10-2022, 01:46 PM   #36
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The Jays had the top offense in the AL. I wouldn't go big game hunting for a position player.

If they go big game hunting I hope it's for a premier starting pitcher like deGrom, Verlander or Rodon.

Move Kikuchi to the pen. He could be an elite high leverage reliever with tons of swing and miss. Pearson could be a factor in the pen too as a swing and miss HL guy.

Let White be the 5th starter until Tiedemann and/or Zulueta are ready to come up and debut.

deGrom/Verlander/Rodon
Manoah
Gausman
Berrios
White

Man that would be amazing
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Old 10-11-2022, 12:13 PM   #37
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I can't remember... did the teams of these other HOFers also 'sell high' when these players were 23?
setting Harper aside, the other 5 have an average of 507 career homers
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Old 10-11-2022, 01:13 PM   #38
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I love the narrative of completely pointless stats to make a player look better. So if we put this age and these numbers then we find these players. Kinda pointless to me at least. Sure Vlad has a nice number of home runs at a young age but at the same time he’s had one great season out of 4. It’s not like he’s Trout or Ohtani or Soto or something. Fact is these days many young players come out and are great from the start. We’ll see next year if he’s able to get back to hitting the ball in the air again.
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Old 10-11-2022, 02:19 PM   #39
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Yeah, other than one season Vlad has been rather underwhelming and his launch angle issues are a major concern at this point. As is his pitch selection.

Not saying he can't get it figured out, but if he doesn't I'd expect a lot more 2-3 fWAR seasons in his future and not very many 6+ fWAR seasons.
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Old 10-11-2022, 02:39 PM   #40
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It’s a battle right now between his bat speed and his launch angle. One keeps his numbers fine the other drags them down. If he fixes launch angle and keeps that speed he’ll go back to having 6WAR seasons. If he loses his bat speed (say from injury like that wrist thing that keeps coming back) he could drop to pedestrian pretty quick. Then again there are plenty of serviceable players with average bat speed but good launch angles. It’s the combination of both that makes a player elite.
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