2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

115 point Huberdeau? Two firsts - I think he gets that no problem.

You mean immediately flipping him? I thought you meant no extensions and flip him mid-season based on how he has played so far.

If they wanted to rebuild they should have traded Tkachuk for futures and not being new guys in, welcome them, then ship them out the door.

I am not sure which team in august is giving up 2 1sts for Huberdeau?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It is never throw in the towel time. Ever.

By throw in the towel, I mean management shift to selling and being focused on next season and further. Not make decisions based on the rest of this season.
Every team has to make this decision every season. This is why you see sellers, teams brining up prospects to give them NHL looks etc.
I don't mean the players throw in the towel and stop trying to win.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I opened a thread on this exact thing in beginning of November and the CP pitchforks came out in full force.

Probably because it’s disconnected from the reality of what the franchise is trying to do
I would support a rebuild. I believe it would have been a sound choice
But at some point constantly talking about how they should have done that gets old because they didn’t and they aren’t
Many fans disagree how this team is focused on winning now. But we choose to acknowledge that’s simply the case

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It is never throw in the towel time. Ever.

This. This "if we just get in anything can happen" or "play for pride" is exactly why the Flames are, have been, and will likely stay mediocre.

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that you're not good enough. It's better to be honest with yourself and those involved than keep lying to everyone and saying "we can still do this!!"

There's also a difference between throwing in the towel and changing strategies to fo us more on the future.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Probably because it’s disconnected from the reality of what the franchise is trying to do
I would support a rebuild. I believe it would have been a sound choice
But at some point constantly talking about how they should have done that gets old because they didn’t and they aren’t
Many fans disagree how this team is focused on winning now. But we choose to acknowledge that’s simply the case

But again....this is a forum for discussions on what happened, what may happen, what is happening, etc. Like you're basically saying if the masses don't agree then it's taboo to talk about it?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

But again....this is a forum for discussions on what happened, what may happen, what is happening, etc. Like you're basically saying if the masses don't agree then it's taboo to talk about it?

No, it’s more that the Flames will never rebuild unless they are dragged into kicking and screaming. The only way they were trading Huberdeau and Weegar is if they refused to sign. It’s the same this deadline and probably off-season. Retool versus a rebuild unless every UFA walks

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

But again....this is a forum for discussions on what happened, what may happen, what is happening, etc. Like you're basically saying if the masses don't agree then it's taboo to talk about it?

Moreso you can beat a dead horse all you want, but it's still dead.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Poe969

This. This "if we just get in anything can happen" or "play for pride" is exactly why the Flames are, have been, and will likely stay mediocre.

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that you're not good enough. It's better to be honest with yourself and those involved than keep lying to everyone and saying "we can still do this!!"

There's also a difference between throwing in the towel and changing strategies to fo us more on the future.

Just imagine if Darryl's Kings team that won the SC or the St Louis Blues that did it took this attitude. If you get in anything can and does happen.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

But again....this is a forum for discussions on what happened, what may happen, what is happening, etc. Like you're basically saying if the masses don't agree then it's taboo to talk about it?

I don't get to decide what people talk about or don't. Do what you want. But expect to be challenged. That's what debate is.
So I'm challenging the constant "they should have re-build, why aren't they re-building, when will they re-build" discussion that is disconnected from the will of the owners. Until that changes, I don't see it as a realistic path.

Looking back at the thread you started, I will agree that the first page or so is full of a lot of junk replies. There's some better discussion later on.
You'll also see when you started that thread I didn't entirely disagree with you.

Again I'd love to see the team re-build.
I just don't think it's on the table at all

Not for 2 more years-ish. At that point they might be dragged into one kicking and screaming.

I think they were trying for a 3 year window. They blew year 1. But I just don't see a world where they sell off good players like Lindholm and Toffoli, as it is totally counter to their objectives.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Moreso you can beat a dead horse all you want, but it's still dead.

Well summed up.

[14Roman14]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

What the rebuild could have been...

To FLA: Tkachuk
To CGY: Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt, 2025 1st round pick

To Team: Huberdeau
To CGY: 2023 1st round pick, 2024 1st round pick (+?)

To Team: Weegar
To CGY: 2023 1st round pick, 2023 2nd round pick (+?)

2023: 3x 1st round picks, 2x 2nd round picks
2024: 2x 1st round picks
2025: 2x 1st round picks

Like...it was right there.

Then we could have sold Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin and Toffoli between 2023-2024 to add even more.

It was right there.

Don't trade Monahan.

Sounds like a chance at a 5 year rebuild until it’s time to be competitive again with a chance at a 10 year rebuild with until competitive if those picks aren’t hits.

I get it that if done the right way it can build a winner but it takes a lot of time, a lot of drafting talent, and a lot of luck that, the prospect talent matures into strong nhl players.

I may be in the minority, but I like that our team is spending to the cap, has a lot of skilled players, and are trying to win. Right now they aren’t exactly clicking and the skill on paper hasn’t transitioned to meshing and showing it on the ice. However it is there and could click big when it dies even if it’s next year. Honestly the Flames were hyped up this year and expected to do well by most “experts”. That adds pressure. It seems when they are expected to do well they don’t, when the experts expect them to take a step back they do surprisingly well.

I feel it would be a mistake to sell them and now as even if it never does click this year, it just might next year when the majority of the team isn’t below their personal expectations.

Many of you may not remember the young gun days. They were so painful. Anyone good was gone, the amazing prospects were hyped as the saviour, but they never were and we were rebuilding from about 1995-2002.

It hasn’t always worked out but I definitely prefer the last 20 odd years of making trades to help try to win now minus iginla/bouwmeester.
There is merit to get in and anything can happen. With this kind of talent I believe it more than ever and would much rather try that route of luck than a rebuild which still requires luck, but could be longer term misery.

I’m not necessarily saying add big, but prefer this team not to sell big. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but hope this fanbase who many seem like they want to sell hard to be careful what they wish for:

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Moreso you can beat a dead horse all you want, but it's still dead.

Umm no, topic opened up when we were 5-3 and wasn't really on anyone's radar, nobody talked about it hence the reason I started the thread.

Talking about it now beating a dead horse...maybe.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Umm no, topic opened up when we were 5-3 and wasn't really on anyone's radar, nobody talked about it hence the reason I started the thread.

Talking about it now beating a dead horse...maybe.

It’s been talked about before last off season. Especially in the crappy Covid seasons

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Umm no, topic opened up when we were 5-3 and wasn't really on anyone's radar, nobody talked about it hence the reason I started the thread.

Talking about it now beating a dead horse...maybe.

It comes up a few times per season every season dating back to 2009 I'd guess.

[Heavy Jack]

Kane and Domi are putting on an absolute clinic tonight from the 10 min mark of the 2nd period on. Unbelievable hockey from those two tonight gotta think they’ll be moved soon if they are traded.

[Canada 02]

Kane is show the Stars what he can do for them

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

Sounds like a chance at a 5 year rebuild until it’s time to be competitive again with a chance at a 10 year rebuild with until competitive if those picks aren’t hits.

I get it that if done the right way it can build a winner but it takes a lot of time, a lot of drafting talent, and a lot of luck that, the prospect talent matures into strong nhl players.

I may be in the minority, but I like that our team is spending to the cap, has a lot of skilled players, and are trying to win. Right now they aren’t exactly clicking and the skill on paper hasn’t transitioned to meshing and showing it on the ice. However it is there and could click big when it dies even if it’s next year. Honestly the Flames were hyped up this year and expected to do well by most “experts”. That adds pressure. It seems when they are expected to do well they don’t, when the experts expect them to take a step back they do surprisingly well.

I feel it would be a mistake to sell them and now as even if it never does click this year, it just might next year when the majority of the team isn’t below their personal expectations.

Many of you may not remember the young gun days. They were so painful. Anyone good was gone, the amazing prospects were hyped as the saviour, but they never were and we were rebuilding from about 1995-2002.

It hasn’t always worked out but I definitely prefer the last 20 odd years of making trades to help try to win now minus iginla/bouwmeester.
There is merit to get in and anything can happen. With this kind of talent I believe it more than ever and would much rather try that route of luck than a rebuild which still requires luck, but could be longer term misery.

I’m not necessarily saying add big, but prefer this team not to sell big. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but hope this fanbase who many seem like they want to sell hard to be careful what they wish for:

As opposed to a 10 year rebuild with the first 5 years being low end picks...round 10-15....thereby likely extending the rebuild...

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Just imagine if Darryl's Kings team that won the SC or the St Louis Blues that did it took this attitude. If you get in anything can and does happen.

Daryl's Kings went 25–13–11 in their last 49 games.
The Blues won 11 straight in Jan/Feb.
Their management made decisions at this time of year based on what they were seeing.

But also;
The 2007-08 Kings traded for 5 extra draft picks between Dec - Feb of that season including one that became Alec Martinez.
They finished last in the Pacific and drafted Drew Doughty at #2.
They did take that attitude you don't like, just not in the season you're talking about.
They made hard decision in years prior that enabled them to be a cup winner 4 years later.

The question management needs to face now is whether the Flames are more like the 07-08 Kings or the 11-12 Kings and this is fair debate; but you can't operate like you're the 11-12 kings every year.
It's pure fiction to suggest those other franchises did.

[SuperMatt18]

If the Flames get in they are probably more like the 11-12 Kings.

The underlying metrics are strong.

If the PP improved and they get even average goaltending and go on a run over the last 25 games then it is possible. It's over a quarter of the season so still a little time left.

The big issue remains if the goaltending doesnt improve doesnt really matter if they get in or Not because not winning a series with .900 or worse goaltending.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Just imagine if Darryl's Kings team that won the SC or the St Louis Blues that did it took this attitude. If you get in anything can and does happen.

1 #8 seed has won the cup, zero #7 seeds and zero #6 seeds.
Yes Darryl caught lightning in a bottle, holding onto this dream that anything can happen if you just get in is ridiculous. Could we go on a run, make it maybe to the third round? Also unlikely but maybe, we’ve gone from thinking we were elite, to a contender, to if we just sneak in we’ll see. If this team wins a round it just prolongs the mediocrity