Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Torture]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Are you really that desperate to play the victim card? Not everyone is going to agree with everyone on everything but most of us don’t feel the need to throw ourselves a pity party when it happens. The only people I’ve ever heard call the faux freedom crowd’s views unacceptable is the faux freedom crowd themselves.

People on the internet were MEAN to me today!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

To be fair, it wasn’t a hard test.

It’s astounding that any half-educated human being would even entertain the idea that all political opinions are equal. Yoho’s over here trying to pretend support for the Nazi Party is just as valid as support for the Conservatives, Liberals, or NDP lol. “They’re all equal!”

Embarrassing.

Know what a bad thing has been? People hand waving away arguments that bring up the Nazi Party with "Godwin's Law".

Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies, is an Internet adage asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a comparison to Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches 1.

I almost never bring up Nazis in political discussion because of this stupid "Law." You actually lose credibility in Internet arguments because they site the law and act like you're a moron. Fata that. It should be cited in every political discussion of this nature. It is possible for entire ideologies and political parties to be sick. Do they all go as far as the Nazis? No, but I'm glad you brought it up because it is a fataing fact that illustrates the point perfectly. There is a lot of grey area in political discourse, but there is also some very basic black and white.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm definitely voting against this, for the record. But I'm also about to be triggered a million times over the coming six months because people are going to insinuate that the government is actually managing this money and I'm too dumb to avoid the bait.



Have you considered a run for office? If this is the platform, I'd vote for it! I won't put a sign on my lawn, or a sticker on my car with the slogan, but it does have a nice ring to it!

You need to write one really good post on CPP governance and AIC governance and then just copy and paste.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Intolerance has to be some form of an IQ test.

Can we start a GoFundMe for you, to help you purchase the wood & nails for the cross you're building to martyr yourself on?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Know what a bad thing has been? People hand waving away arguments that bring up the Nazi Party with "Godwin's Law".



I almost never bring up Nazis in political discussion because of this stupid "Law." You actually lose credibility in Internet arguments because they site the law and act like you're a moron. Fata that. It should be cited in every political discussion of this nature. It is possible for entire ideologies and political parties to be sick. Do they all go as far as the Nazis? No, but I'm glad you brought it up because it is a fataing fact that illustrates the point perfectly. There is a lot of grey area in political discourse, but there is also some very basic black and white.

And the rise of the Nazis is actually just a relevant example...a democratic first-world nation losing the plot with anger fuelled by misinformation and unjustified victim mentality. Of course 1939 onwards is a different kettle of fish, but the preceding two decades is eerily familiar.

Jan 6. Ottawa "convoy". Coutts. Michigan governor thing.

Hell, ASWUCA - whether intentionally or incompetently - was more than a baby step towards the Enabling Act of 1933 (who needs all that red tape, anyways). You don't need to leap from 1933 to "The Final Solution"...but it may be relevant to consider the increments towards say 1937, when rearmament and the notion of Lebensraum were introduced - neither idea being totally radical/scary in the context of 1937.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

You need to write one really good post on CPP governance and AIC governance and then just copy and paste.

It's futile though. This is going to sound pompous, but the truth is most people have zero idea about how to actually manage money, let alone a pension fund worth billions for the province/countries citizens. It's not a lot different to me than people who think that GMs of sports franchises are morons and "they should just do this..."

This probably belongs in the gear-grinder thread, but the overall disdain for professionals and people who actually do these things for a living is pretty annoying in our society. The internet is amazing, and I pretty clearly love it. But it's also made people think that they know a lot more than they actually do, and probably leads to a false sense of confidence when it comes to a lot of topics.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's futile though. This is going to sound pompous, but the truth is most people have zero idea about how to actually manage money, let alone a pension fund worth billions for the province/countries citizens. It's not a lot different to me than people who think that GMs of sports franchises are morons and "they should just do this..."

This probably belongs in the gear-grinder thread, but the overall disdain for professionals and people who actually do these things for a living is pretty annoying in our society. The internet is amazing, and I pretty clearly love it. But it's also made people think that they know a lot more than they actually do, and probably leads to a false sense of confidence when it comes to a lot of topics.

That’s certainly fair and I certainly play arm chair investor,lawyer, GM, and epidemiologist in here but I do find when real experts post it always adds value to the conversation and I would say has changed some views I previously held. So I don’t think it’s useless.

[puffnstuff]

New plan to transport patients to the hospitals came out.

I believe you call an Uberlance now to get you there.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Slava

This probably belongs in the gear-grinder thread, but the overall disdain for professionals and people who actually do these things for a living is pretty annoying in our society. The internet is amazing, and I pretty clearly love it. But it's also made people think that they know a lot more than they actually do, and probably leads to a false sense of confidence when it comes to a lot of topics.

Healthcare nodding along

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's futile though. This is going to sound pompous, but the truth is most people have zero idea about how to actually manage money, let alone a pension fund worth billions for the province/countries citizens. It's not a lot different to me than people who think that GMs of sports franchises are morons and "they should just do this..."

This probably belongs in the gear-grinder thread, but the overall disdain for professionals and people who actually do these things for a living is pretty annoying in our society. The internet is amazing, and I pretty clearly love it. But it's also made people think that they know a lot more than they actually do, and probably leads to a false sense of confidence when it comes to a lot of topics.

OK Slava but have you considered that we could just dump CPP into an index fund? (Or even better, put it all in on O&G!)

[Locke]

Originally Posted by calf

Why don't these morons realize there's economies of scale when pooling money with the RoC? Sure, maybe contributions are less per person, but having an overall larger pool of contributions provides the CPP better investment opportunities, more stability of contributions...all fundamental pension management practices. Fiscal conservatives my ass.

I often wonder too, if an APP is so important, why don't they lobby for an Alberta EI program too?

(Other than that they're both ####ing dumb ideas)

Taking control of our own Pension Funds is a laughably short-sighted plan.

Anyone who thinks this is good idea has no concept of how pensions funds work.

These are long-term plans...Alberta has an advantage 'right now' if we potentially manage our own pensions...but that advantage is short-term and small...the exact opposite for what you need in pension planning.

I would strongly suggest that if anyone has the opportunity to vote against or talk someone out of, an Alberta Pension Plan....take it.

[puffnstuff]

The whole APP thing is weird. Im wondering how some UCP pols and donors are going to make money from it. Why else would they do it?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

The whole APP thing is weird. Im wondering how some UCP pols and donors are going to make money from it. Why else would they do it?

Because it's another petty attempt to say "screw you" to Ottawa. That's it. Except the only ones getting screwed are Albertans.

They'll pretend the math works better, but the truth is they won't have costed out the entire system and what worst case scenarios look like in the future, because they don't care about any of that. They just want to thumb our noses at Justin. They are children in charge.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

The whole APP thing is weird. Im wondering how some UCP pols and donors are going to make money from it. Why else would they do it?

Because the elderly rural voters couldnt care less.

They see it as 'Alberta taking control' which in their eyes is a good thing, but they're not going to suffer any consequences of it so to them its 'wins' all around.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Torture

OK Slava but have you considered that we could just dump CPP into an index fund? (Or even better, put it all in on O&G!)

Think of the money we'll save! Sure, a year where the index is down 20% is going to suck, and maybe the risk tolerance isn't where it should be, but at least we can not pay professionals to do things, and that's worth something?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Know what a bad thing has been? People hand waving away arguments that bring up the Nazi Party with "Godwin's Law".



I almost never bring up Nazis in political discussion because of this stupid "Law." You actually lose credibility in Internet arguments because they site the law and act like you're a moron. Fata that. It should be cited in every political discussion of this nature. It is possible for entire ideologies and political parties to be sick. Do they all go as far as the Nazis? No, but I'm glad you brought it up because it is a fataing fact that illustrates the point perfectly. There is a lot of grey area in political discourse, but there is also some very basic black and white.

The problem with those Godwin's Law tools is that they jump straight to the holocaust and decry you for even trying to use that as a comparable. But they seem to completely forget about the 1920's Nazi party, who gained attention by playing to the flag waving patriot crowd. They railed against the "elite ruling class", scapegoated minority groups, drowned out political discourse with lies and misinformation, oh and then there was that whole failed coup business. Not like any of that is relevant to our current political climate at all

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Locke

Taking control of our own Pension Funds is a laughably short-sighted plan.

Anyone who thinks this is good idea has no concept of how pensions funds work.

These are long-term plans...Alberta has an advantage 'right now' if we potentially manage our own pensions...but that advantage is short-term and small...the exact opposite for what you need in pension planning.

I would strongly suggest that if anyone has the opportunity to vote against or talk someone out of, an Alberta Pension Plan....take it.

Exactly. Nevermind economies of scale, doubling up on administration, etc, but we're a young province and generally Albertans have higher than average earnings right now... but that doesn't mean we will forever. (And actually there's evidence that Alberta's wage advantage is eroding).
Ironically, if we were to create an Alberta Pension Plan, the time to do it was actually 20 years ago when Klein didn't. But that's with the benefit of perfect hindsight.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Torture

Exactly. Nevermind economies of scale, doubling up on administration, etc, but we're a young province and generally Albertans have higher than average earnings right now... but that doesn't mean we will forever. (And actually there's evidence that Alberta's wage advantage is eroding).
Ironically, if we were to create an Alberta Pension Plan, the time to do it was actually 20 years ago when Klein didn't. But that's with the benefit of perfect hindsight.

Ultimately the concept of the APP is a microcosm of the entire problem that we're facing, and I know this is the Alberta Politics thread but I think it spans Nationally.

The UCP and SmithCP concept of Federal Adversarialism isnt principally unique, but its something that we as Canadians really need to be wary of.

I know I've felt like the Canadian National Identity has never been weaker. We're barely a country more than we are a bunch of squabbling jurisdictions associated in a loose form of Confederation due to opportune geography.

We have to start working together, cooperating together for mutual benefit instead of being the geographically largest game of 'Hungry Hungry Hippos' ever played with everyone scrambling to 'FYGM.'

But nobody apparently wants to be the first to take a step in that direction, so it leads to more fracturing, looking out for certain demographics and jurisdictions first.

And the concept of an Alberta Pension Plan basically just hammers that point home.

"Screw everyone else, we're looking out for ourselves!!"

When did we become that? Because I didnt become that. I dont subscribe to that.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Locke

Because the elderly rural voters couldnt care less.

They see it as 'Alberta taking control' which in their eyes is a good thing, but they're not going to suffer any consequences of it so to them its 'wins' all around.

Excellent point...same attitude with Brexit in the UK.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ultimately the concept of the APP is a microcosm of the entire problem that we're facing, and I know this is the Alberta Politics thread but I think it spans Nationally.

The UCP and SmithCP concept of Federal Adversarialism isnt principally unique, but its something that we as Canadians really need to be wary of.

I know I've felt like the Canadian National Identity has never been weaker. We're barely a country more than we are a bunch of squabbling jurisdictions associated in a loose form of Confederation due to opportune geography.

We have to start working together, cooperating together for mutual benefit instead of being the geographically largest game of 'Hungry Hungry Hippos' ever played with everyone scrambling to 'FYGM.'

But nobody apparently wants to be the first to take a step in that direction, so it leads to more fracturing, looking out for certain demographics and jurisdictions first.

And the concept of an Alberta Pension Plan basically just hammers that point home.

"Screw everyone else, we're looking out for ourselves!!"

When did we become that? Because I didnt become that. I dont subscribe to that.

You just have to peek on Twitter () and see how many Canadians are carrying water for US right-wing/libertarian causes. The Right-Wing Grift-O-Sphere knows no borders, and you often see interbreeding of Canadian and American personalities.

Just last night, ####er Tarlson had some coked-out lady from The Rebel on, and he's hosted Ezra Levant a ton. I'm sure the Western Standard goobers have had some airtime as well. Hell, Artur Whackedoutski was on like a half dozen times this year.

The FYGM mentality, along with the general Us vs Them brainworms has been imported wholesale.