Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[blender]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

No, probably not. And not just because she honestly can’t be defended because her views are well..insane, but because we can’t have any discussion between political differences. It was nice having different opinions on politics, but we have chased away posters like Cliff. So now we are left with mostly left wing posters going on and on about the same old. Fun right?

Left wing?
Are you kidding? CP is pretty conservative by my standards; a normal, moderate, educated conservativism that is representative of a sizeable portion of Canadians. The fact that there is such an outcry right now speaks volumes about the current state of affairs in Alberta.

This isn't about right and left. This is about right and wrong.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by blender

Left wing?
Are you kidding? CP is pretty conservative by my standards; a normal, moderate, educated conservativism that is representative of a sizeable portion of Canadians. The fact that there is such an outcry right now speaks volumes about the current state of affairs in Alberta.

This isn't about right and left. This is about right and wrong.

For simpletons yes..

[blender]

Originally Posted by Yoho

For simpletons yes..

Yes, right and wrong is a simple concept.

[Geraldsh]

To quote Indiana Jones "It doesn't matter so much what you believe, it's how hard you believe it."
I view this as a left or center forum. The right wing/conservative forum I occasionally visit was cheering and gladhanding one another when Smith won the leadership but this week they are strangely quiet. Has she run too far ahead of her pack?

[Yamer]

I have absolutely no clue what value Yoho brings to the board or community at this point.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I have absolutely no clue what value Yoho brings to the board or community at this point.

Who cares? Dude tweets borrowed tweets into the wind. Can't think of a thing less deserving of attention.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by belsarius

The final report on that program had it return 5x the cost in lifetime value of energy savings to participants when looking solely at households. The program was successful in doing what it set out to do. It had its share of issues and anecdotal disappointments - but the upfront value of $132M turning into $600M in lifetime savings has to be considered a win.

Energy Efficiency Alberta was a successful program that overall returned $3 for every $1 invested. That makes good economic sense, but was an easy target for partisans.

Do you have a link to that report? I’m interested in how they calculated the value as with many of these types of programs some of the benefits claimed are suspect.

Did that account for the time value of money?
Did that account that simply banning incandescent bulbs would have the same affect on the light bulb side?

[14Roman14]

I’ll admit.
I’m somewhat hesitant to post much on here. Being called lame was fairly minor to how far some posters went. It’s almost like they are so sure their opinion is right, they have no way to view anything else as anything but stupid. I feel many don’t realize that there are posters from in Calgary, out of Calgary, in Alberta and out, and that different areas likely have far different opinions and needs and values to a point. Sometimes what’s right for one poster is not for another and vice versa.
I am fairly involved in certain levels of politics. Have got a lot more invested in them over the past few years. I do enjoy political discussion and engaging with thoughtful, respectful people who don’t jump to the your wrong and stupid conclusion if opinions are different.
I live a very busy life, and have much better things to do than post on a message board, just to be lambasted for different opinions than the majority. The fact that so many obviously don’t have anything better to do, might explain the reason they feel the way they do politically.
I honestly have no idea how so many people are so opposed to a provincial government putting Alberta’s best interests first over federal issues/attacks on our prosperity. I think it is ridiculous so many people would fight against an act that puts the needs of Albertans first and more power to fight for Albertans. I would love to just call you all stupid, or crazy, but I won’t. I never have called any poster rude names nor will I. Say all you want that it’s soft or weak, not to post much in fear of getting called names or put down, but isn’t that what we all want is for people to live their best lives and be treated kindly regardless of differences? In no way is it easy to be put down at any age or mental standing. Life has been hard enough on so many the past bit. In a time when many need a lift, to some it’s not worth trying to engage in conversation, knowing full well at some point you will be called stupid by someone who disagrees with you right or wrong.
I’m not sure if those posters do it in order to feel like they’ve had the upper hand and make themselves feel better by putting others down or what, but there will be limited discussion if those that take the effort to post and debate leave the forum not feeling like it was a good experience.

One poster who gained a lot of respect from me was GGG. I don’t agree with a lot of his posts, GGG doesn’t agree with mine I don’t think, but GGG took the time to reach out to me and encourage me to keep posting and interacting. It was a small gesture but after feeling like I got beat down all day, it was a huge pick up a while back.

I know many of you will roll your eyes at this, or say you had it coming, or stop whining. You may be right or wrong but you are entitled to feel how you want I won’t argue but also won’t change how I feel or why.

There is a difference between calling a political figure a name on a board that that person will very likely never see and calling another poster something.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, all the best.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

I’ll admit.
I’m somewhat hesitant to post much on here. Being called lame was fairly minor to how far some posters went. It’s almost like they are so sure their opinion is right, they have no way to view anything else as anything but stupid. I feel many don’t realize that there are posters from in Calgary, out of Calgary, in Alberta and out, and that different areas likely have far different opinions and needs and values to a point. Sometimes what’s right for one poster is not for another and vice versa.
I am fairly involved in certain levels of politics. Have got a lot more invested in them over the past few years. I do enjoy political discussion and engaging with thoughtful, respectful people who don’t jump to the your wrong and stupid conclusion if opinions are different.
I live a very busy life, and have much better things to do than post on a message board, just to be lambasted for different opinions than the majority. The fact that so many obviously don’t have anything better to do, might explain the reason they feel the way they do politically.
I honestly have no idea how so many people are so opposed to a provincial government putting Alberta’s best interests first over federal issues/attacks on our prosperity. I think it is ridiculous so many people would fight against an act that puts the needs of Albertans first and more power to fight for Albertans. I would love to just call you all stupid, or crazy, but I won’t. I never have called any poster rude names nor will I. Say all you want that it’s soft or weak, not to post much in fear of getting called names or put down, but isn’t that what we all want is for people to live their best lives and be treated kindly regardless of differences? In no way is it easy to be put down at any age or mental standing. Life has been hard enough on so many the past bit. In a time when many need a lift, to some it’s not worth trying to engage in conversation, knowing full well at some point you will be called stupid by someone who disagrees with you right or wrong.
I’m not sure if those posters do it in order to feel like they’ve had the upper hand and make themselves feel better by putting others down or what, but there will be limited discussion if those that take the effort to post and debate leave the forum not feeling like it was a good experience.

One poster who gained a lot of respect from me was GGG. I don’t agree with a lot of his posts, GGG doesn’t agree with mine I don’t think, but GGG took the time to reach out to me and encourage me to keep posting and interacting. It was a small gesture but after feeling like I got beat down all day, it was a huge pick up a while back.

I know many of you will roll your eyes at this, or say you had it coming, or stop whining. You may be right or wrong but you are entitled to feel how you want I won’t argue but also won’t change how I feel or why.

There is a difference between calling a political figure a name on a board that that person will very likely never see and calling another poster something.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, all the best.

I try to attack or criticize positions/arguments, not posters/people. I'm sure I fail at that from time to time.

Re: your position, I'm opposed to this provincial government (and its silly Sovereignty Act) precisely because I don't think it is putting Alberta's best interests first or addressing the needs of Albertans.

[PsYcNeT]

Since we apparently have a cadre of Cons bumming around the thread again, can someone please explain how you square the base-fundamental tenet of Conservativism of "smaller-government" and expansion of government control outlined in the Sovereignty Act?

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

I’ll admit.
I’m somewhat hesitant to post much on here. Being called lame was fairly minor to how far some posters went. It’s almost like they are so sure their opinion is right, they have no way to view anything else as anything but stupid. I feel many don’t realize that there are posters from in Calgary, out of Calgary, in Alberta and out, and that different areas likely have far different opinions and needs and values to a point. Sometimes what’s right for one poster is not for another and vice versa.
I am fairly involved in certain levels of politics. Have got a lot more invested in them over the past few years. I do enjoy political discussion and engaging with thoughtful, respectful people who don’t jump to the your wrong and stupid conclusion if opinions are different.
I live a very busy life, and have much better things to do than post on a message board, just to be lambasted for different opinions than the majority. The fact that so many obviously don’t have anything better to do, might explain the reason they feel the way they do politically.
I honestly have no idea how so many people are so opposed to a provincial government putting Alberta’s best interests first over federal issues/attacks on our prosperity. I think it is ridiculous so many people would fight against an act that puts the needs of Albertans first and more power to fight for Albertans. I would love to just call you all stupid, or crazy, but I won’t. I never have called any poster rude names nor will I. Say all you want that it’s soft or weak, not to post much in fear of getting called names or put down, but isn’t that what we all want is for people to live their best lives and be treated kindly regardless of differences? In no way is it easy to be put down at any age or mental standing. Life has been hard enough on so many the past bit. In a time when many need a lift, to some it’s not worth trying to engage in conversation, knowing full well at some point you will be called stupid by someone who disagrees with you right or wrong.
I’m not sure if those posters do it in order to feel like they’ve had the upper hand and make themselves feel better by putting others down or what, but there will be limited discussion if those that take the effort to post and debate leave the forum not feeling like it was a good experience.

One poster who gained a lot of respect from me was GGG. I don’t agree with a lot of his posts, GGG doesn’t agree with mine I don’t think, but GGG took the time to reach out to me and encourage me to keep posting and interacting. It was a small gesture but after feeling like I got beat down all day, it was a huge pick up a while back.

I know many of you will roll your eyes at this, or say you had it coming, or stop whining. You may be right or wrong but you are entitled to feel how you want I won’t argue but also won’t change how I feel or why.

There is a difference between calling a political figure a name on a board that that person will very likely never see and calling another poster something.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, all the best.

a lot of words that signify nothing.

Tell us why you feel Bill 1 is a good and decent act (more than just " good for them for putting Alberta first"), and they wouldn't abuse the powers they want to give themselves.

If you're in the political world, you shouldn't have any trouble explaining to us ignorant laypeople how the aspects of the act as published are not subverting democracy or the constitution. How the act is going to help the province and the people in it, and not leave us at the mercy of a cabinet unilaterally deciding the laws we are compelled to follow.

[PepsiFree]

It’d probably be more helpful if 14Romans14 didn’t pretend that the reason he was passionately disagreed with multiple times on this board was “politics” and not because he is an anti-vaxxer who has espoused anti-science rhetoric, which is not a political position at all.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I didn't think it could do it, but this bot most be becoming sentient. I asked for 2 sentences and it delivered!

Now...play classical gas!

Even (mis)quoted Shakespeare!

How many monkeys are running this account!

[Fuzz]

He has different opinions, alright?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

a lot of words that signify nothing.

Tell us why you feel Bill 1 is a good and decent act (more than just " good for them for putting Alberta first"), and they wouldn't abuse the powers they want to give themselves.

If you're in the political world, you shouldn't have any trouble explaining to us ignorant laypeople how the aspects of the act as published are not subverting democracy or the constitution. How the act is going to help the province and the people in it, and not leave us at the mercy of a cabinet unilaterally deciding the laws we are compelled to follow.

Followed by few words to say even less.

You don’t like the bill that’s great. Don’t kid yourself the amount of Albertans that do. It should scare you which side you are on when all these “good guys” on a federal leader level are circling in on this to stop it.

The panic and attacks we are seeing in this thread is that Smith’s plan might actually work.

[Roughneck]

What’s the plan again?

[PeteMoss]

My take on the 'chasing people off' stuff - is that people just aren't used to having defend positions anymore because most sites just algorithmically push you into bubbles where everyone agrees with you OR to views that are completely off-putting you to incite you into rage.

So when people challenge opinions now - its a combination of people challenging getting overly aggressive in their language and then people being challenged being overly sensitive - which is probably the norm for internet debates going back to the beginning of internet time. But since this site doesn't have an algorithm - you're stuck debating PepsiFree or Cliff or whoever. You can't just banish them from your feed like you can on newer sites.

Its uncomfortable to be challenged when you just go back to your bubble and avoid all of that.

Eliminating the personal shots would probably help - but I do find having some emotion in a discussing makes it more interesting than the so-called intellectual discussions where its just a bunch of navel gazing people trying to sound smarter than the next guy.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Followed by few words to say even less.

You don’t like the bill that’s great. Don’t kid yourself the amount of Albertans that do. It should scare you which side you are on when all these “good guys” on a federal leader level are circling in on this to stop it.

The panic and attacks we are seeing in this thread is that Smith’s plan might actually work.

How do you judge success on this one? What's a successful Smith look like for Alberta(and Canada) in 5 years? How did we get there?

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1598469910413578240

Looks pretty straight forward.

Did you even watch this video? It says that this is all you need to know about the act but during the 6 minutes video she does not say a single thing about what it is. It is about how an act becomes a law and then she goes on a rant about how Notley said to CBC that it would be good for Ottawa to strike it down and how Notley is the biggest traitor to Alberta ever. I guess all we need to know is that Notley does not like it???
Seems pretty straight forward.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

I’ll admit.
I’m somewhat hesitant to post much on here. Being called lame was fairly minor to how far some posters went. It’s almost like they are so sure their opinion is right, they have no way to view anything else as anything but stupid. I feel many don’t realize that there are posters from in Calgary, out of Calgary, in Alberta and out, and that different areas likely have far different opinions and needs and values to a point. Sometimes what’s right for one poster is not for another and vice versa.
I am fairly involved in certain levels of politics. Have got a lot more invested in them over the past few years. I do enjoy political discussion and engaging with thoughtful, respectful people who don’t jump to the your wrong and stupid conclusion if opinions are different.
I live a very busy life, and have much better things to do than post on a message board, just to be lambasted for different opinions than the majority. The fact that so many obviously don’t have anything better to do, might explain the reason they feel the way they do politically.
I honestly have no idea how so many people are so opposed to a provincial government putting Alberta’s best interests first over federal issues/attacks on our prosperity. I think it is ridiculous so many people would fight against an act that puts the needs of Albertans first and more power to fight for Albertans. I would love to just call you all stupid, or crazy, but I won’t. I never have called any poster rude names nor will I. Say all you want that it’s soft or weak, not to post much in fear of getting called names or put down, but isn’t that what we all want is for people to live their best lives and be treated kindly regardless of differences? In no way is it easy to be put down at any age or mental standing. Life has been hard enough on so many the past bit. In a time when many need a lift, to some it’s not worth trying to engage in conversation, knowing full well at some point you will be called stupid by someone who disagrees with you right or wrong.
I’m not sure if those posters do it in order to feel like they’ve had the upper hand and make themselves feel better by putting others down or what, but there will be limited discussion if those that take the effort to post and debate leave the forum not feeling like it was a good experience.

One poster who gained a lot of respect from me was GGG. I don’t agree with a lot of his posts, GGG doesn’t agree with mine I don’t think, but GGG took the time to reach out to me and encourage me to keep posting and interacting. It was a small gesture but after feeling like I got beat down all day, it was a huge pick up a while back.

I know many of you will roll your eyes at this, or say you had it coming, or stop whining. You may be right or wrong but you are entitled to feel how you want I won’t argue but also won’t change how I feel or why.

There is a difference between calling a political figure a name on a board that that person will very likely never see and calling another poster something.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, all the best.

Ok here's the thing. If you want to engage in a discussion about specific things, like the sovereignty act, that the UCP/Danielle Smith have done that you can support/defend, go nuts. Nobody is going to attack you personally if you can come up with some honest to god logical reasons why Albertans should support this legislation. Even bad leaders can be right from time to time.

I would say you probably can't, other than some anti federal, 'Berta reasoning but that's besides the point.

But the real important part of this is the whole "I'm just a normal conservative and I want to participate but you guys are bullies" attitude. It's BS. And I'm gonna tell you why.

Conservatism is toxic. Not because you're a small 'c' conservative who believes in the free market and small government. If that's all you wanted to talk about, once again, go nuts. I'm sure there's a fair number of centre-right small 'c' cons on this board and in Calgary. You won't be attacked.

Except that's not what being a conservative means anymore. It means being a Trump or Republican supporter. That automatically makes you a piece of ####. And I mean that. If you support the republican party in it's current form, then you are a piece of ####.

Why? Because you are siding with the party that is anti women's rights. Anti worker. Anti freedom of speech. Anti vaccine. Anti science. Pro racist. Pro white supremacist. Pro violence. Pro treason. Pro christian extremists.

And ok, maybe you convince me you're just a Canadian con and you hate the republicans and what conservatism has turned into in the USA. Sure. Republicans have poisoned conservatism and you're frustrated by it too, right? You guys always get a bad rap.

But you support the UCP and the federal cons? Ok so then you're still bad. Not quite USA republicans bad, but it's pretty ####ing bad. Now you're just pro freedom convoy, anti trans rights, anti vaccine and anti science with just some sprinkling of white supremacy instead of being full on ####ing neo nazis.

So then you tell me again, no Cecil, don't worry. I'm a conservative but not one of those cons. I'm just about small government and the free market, I'm not caught up in identity politics. Oh, but I always blindly vote conservative and won't vote for another party.

And that's the crux of the issue here. You can't sit here and say you dislike all the crazy stupid exremist things that conservatives are doing on this continent (or country or province) and say you don't support those crazy things, if you're still going to blindly vote for them every election. Well you can sit here and say that but you're rightfully going to get torn to shreds for it.

If my party got overrun by goddamn white nationalist nazi supporting anti vaxxers I'd be ripping up my membership card so goddamn fast. What do cons do instead? They shrug their ####ing shoulders and go "oh well, my team is my team and nothing I can do because I'm not voting Lib or NDP".

As a conservative then, you have two options if you want any respect from me. Pick a new party (or have no party, which is fine too). Or join the party and fight hard to change it back to something resembling a respectable political party and not a vehicle for right wing extremists and russian propaganda. But do not for a second attempt to convince me that the UCP, fed cons or the republicans have even one shred of dignity left as a party. They feed on misinformation, hate, fear and extremism. These are not admirable qualities that I can respect and that lead to solid political discourse.


Feel free to expand on how you are just as frustrated as some other small c cons at how your party has been co-opted by out-of-their-####ing-mind extremists. There are no shortage of conservatives who feel the same way. Or you can side with yoho and his ilk, drink the right wing extremist kool aid and go on supporting your wing nut anti vaxxer party of lunatics.