Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Locke]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I find this whole sovereignty act thing so bizarre. We already have a constitution that confers a tremendous amount of power to the provinces, and frankly, Alberta could assert much more provincial power within the framework of the consitution.

Disagree with a provincial police force or an alberta pension plan all you want, but those are contemplated and are implemented in other provinces.

Why not just assert more provincial authority within the federalist system as it exists? It's just so stupid.

Just ask Fuzz and Sliver. They saw this all coming so they must know whats next.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Also for Ford - the Greenbelt fiasco might do him in.

Well passing legislation to make it illegal for a union to go on strike was the end. There is no way back, so it’s open season on whatever he and his cronies want while he still has a majority.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Locke

Just ask Fuzz and Sliver. They saw this all coming so they must know whats next.

Sometimes you seem a little off.

[RedHot25]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1597613082561646593

https://twitter.com/user/status/1597768123184484352

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Sometimes you seem a little off.

I just find some people determining what was coming predicted a radio host being our Premier and trying to essentially separate Alberta within Canadian Confederation.

Thats nuts.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Locke

I just find some people determining what was coming predicted a radio host being our Premier and trying to essentially separate Alberta within Canadian Confederation.

Thats nuts.

Well, I don’t know if anyone predicted Smith becoming premier without Kenney being a complete ass and a tiny handful of morons with UCP memberships, but his Alberta Pension Plan, Alberta Police Force crap was out there. If that wasn’t suggestive of trying to separate from Canada, I don’t know what is.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Locke

I just find some people determining what was coming predicted a radio host being our Premier and trying to essentially separate Alberta within Canadian Confederation.

Thats nuts.

I think you're looking at this too granularly... It's like someone predicting there will be sand at the beach and you're trying to call them out on not predicting where a specific grain is.

The point is, it was predictable that the UCP were going to be garbage.

[Flames0910]

But when people say this about every conservative government in every election they don’t get to be like see we were right. We went through Harper without disasters, Ford is significantly better than predicted. Kenny and now Smith is really the only boogeyman that came through.

You do realize there is a sizable group of people who have voted conservative their whole lives along with the rest of Alberta and only recently switched their vote to the NDP when Prentice mansplained math to Notley in the debate, right? Many of these people voted for Harper in his first or second term and a majority probably still held their noses and voted for him as his platform grew tired towards the end.

These are not lifetime left-wing voters we're talking about, but recent converts or people who have been left without a political home as the right has moved further to the fringe.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Sometimes you seem a little off.

It's the high altitude in the helicopter.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Well I sent a letter of condemnation to my MLA (who voted "yay" on this abortion), I expect to get 0 reply.

Lmao the Sun is actively removing any post critical of this bull####.

Unfortunately, the Herald leaves in ALL comments and sad as it is, most have bought in hook, line, and sinker...all wearing Kool-aid glasses, willing to vote for any party except the NDP.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

I just find some people determining what was coming predicted a radio host being our Premier and trying to essentially separate Alberta within Canadian Confederation.

Thats nuts.

I did warn having Danielle Smith on QR77 was a detriment to democracy, and that her spreading lies and misinformation would lead to unfit people getting elected because not everyone fact checks radio shows, but they sure do nod along when she says taxes are too high, and the US does things better. She sowed the seeds of descent and I made no bones about how bad I thought that was. I didn't think it would actually be Smith.

I've also pointed out how bad it was for the PC's to allow a reverse takeover by the Reformers, and that that was exactly what the Wildrose were doing in Alberta. Well they did it. So forgive me if you think this is all hindsight, it is not.

Many also warned against Conservative "slate" candidates in municipal elections, and it's fortunate those warnings were headed. Look at the corrupt disaster those folks have been. Even their choice candidate for mayor has turned on them.

And since GGG says it's like a boy crying wolf, I've voted for PC's, Liberals, Greens, Alberta Party...the first time I ever cast a vote for the NDP was Notley's first term. Just because the warning signs have been flashing for a long time, doesn't mean our pointing it out is crying wolf. I get what he's saying I just don't think it applies. I'd love for there to be a respectable centre right party to vote for in any level of government. There currently isn't. And we aren't going to get there by voting for the next best thing, which is what people seem to think.

Maybe, just maybe people who pay close enough attention should have their warnings heeded instead of brushed off.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That's me, dude. Didn't vote NDP the first time (voted Conservative). Last election it was clear Notley was not only a good person, but a highly competent leader with a team of reasonable, capable people versus the ####### morons the Conservatives ran with and their mean, idealogue, poisoned-by-religion leader (never mind their jaw droppingly bad policies).

You get to be in the I told you so club then. That is fair.

[Dion]

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by GGG

But when people say this about every conservative government in every election they don’t get to be like see we were right. We went through Harper without disasters, Ford is significantly better than predicted. Kenny and now Smith is really the only boogeyman that came through.

Unless you were a person who regularly voted conservative and then switched in this last election I don’t think you get to say We warned you. It’s a boy who cried wolf scenario. So pro Prentice, Anti Kenny voters can do a victory lap.

This is BS. Harper was a disaster when he got his majority. Ford was significantly better in his first term and is ripping his way down as we speak, the last few months have been nothing but a disaster in Ontario. This isn't the same as just opposing policy decisions, these people are breaking our institutions and have been for a while now.

You can try and gate keep who can say "I told you so" all you want, but it is not a boy who cried wolf scenario. Conservativism in Canada has played out pretty much as expected since the Reformers took over the PCs. Each successive government is worst that the last.

If you want an analogy, the boy cried wolf when the wolf ate one sheep and conservatives didn't care. Then cried again when the next wolf ate two sheep and still, conservatives didn't care. Why? Because it was always someone else's sheep getting eaten. But now that the wolves are eating half the flock, suddenly conservatives care?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by belsarius

This is BS. Harper was a disaster when he got his majority. Ford was significantly better in his first term and is ripping his way down as we speak, the last few months have been nothing but a disaster in Ontario. This isn't the same as just opposing policy decisions, these people are breaking our institutions and have been for a while now.

You can try and gate keep who can say "I told you so" all you want, but it is not a boy who cried wolf scenario. Conservativism in Canada has played out pretty much as expected since the Reformers took over the PCs. Each successive government is worst that the last.

If you want an analogy, the boy cried wolf when the wolf ate one sheep and conservatives didn't care. Then cried again when the next wolf ate two sheep and still, conservatives didn't care. Why? Because it was always someone else's sheep getting eaten. But now that the wolves are eating half the flock, suddenly conservatives care?

Harpers mandatory minimums, gutting the census and muzzling scientists weren’t the try to ban abortion and gay marriage that were being pitched. You are making my point conservatives have been okay to poor in general prior to the Kenny election while many were saying they would be a disaster.

No one made a case for a slow decline of government performance.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by GGG

But when people say this about every conservative government in every election they don’t get to be like see we were right. We went through Harper without disasters, Ford is significantly better than predicted. Kenny and now Smith is really the only boogeyman that came through.

Unless you were a person who regularly voted conservative and then switched in this last election I don’t think you get to say We warned you. It’s a boy who cried wolf scenario. So pro Prentice, Anti Kenny voters can do a victory lap.

Nonsense. None of what's happened has been surprising.Let's not pretend that people were nearly as concerned about Prentice or Redford as they were Kenney. Part of that is the crazy Wild Rose component.

It's also a weak comparison. The amount of information that is easily accessible about these candidates is vastly different just in the last decade. Anyone who warned about Kenney and the UCP certainly gets to say I told you so, and it's difficult to compare that to how people felt about Ed Stelmach.

Would you say that conservative voters shouldn't be able to criticize the NDP after their Alberta run?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Locke

Just ask Fuzz and Sliver. They saw this all coming so they must know whats next.

Idk about Fuzz and Sliver but you sure made a lot of hay over Ozy and Muta's positions in the Election thread a few years back

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=173517

I'd say their assessments were pretty much bang on ultimately.

[TheIronMaiden]

I have never voted for the Provincial conservatives, and likely never will.
That said, the I told you so argument is lame and unconstructive.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Nonsense. None of what's happened has been surprising.Let's not pretend that people were nearly as concerned about Prentice or Redford as they were Kenney. Part of that is the crazy Wild Rose component.

It's also a weak comparison. The amount of information that is easily accessible about these candidates is vastly different just in the last decade. Anyone who warned about Kenney and the UCP certainly gets to say I told you so, and it's difficult to compare that to how people felt about Ed Stelmach.

Would you say that conservative voters shouldn't be able to criticize the NDP after their Alberta run?

I’m not sure your question makes sense here. Because this is voters criticizing voters. So if your question is should Conservative voters criticize NDP voters for voting NDP because of say the royalty review or the PPA screw up I would say no.

[Monahammer]

Has anyone here actually read the act?
I have, I am extremely curious how they intend to make the Lieutenant Governor perform the tasks required in the act to make anything happen. In spite of what the act says, the legislature voting cannot direct the LG to do anything, only advise. Within the act (I assume in order for it to be even close to legally relevant) the orders need to actively come from a participant LG to disregard or modify federal directives or requirements.

Available here: https://docs.assembly.ab.ca/LADDAR_f...9_bill-001.pdf