Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Faust]

Thomas A. Lukaszuk

Wallace, political fixer, alleges he was hired by #Yyc conservatives to frame mayor @nenshi with Russian cash.

Wallace names names. Alleges that Danielle Smith was involved.

I say “Far-fetched but knowing the characters, possible”.

Then I see the “Cc” at the bottom.

#AbLeg

https://twitter.com/lukaszukab/statu...674698240?s=21

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Yoho

“ Alberta had the highest compensation rates for full-time family doctors, at an average of $393,248 a year.”

https://vancouversun.com/news/new-de...483a60f40/amp/

Enjoy those BC property prices.

So basically the same as BC will be paying them, and BC is not fee for service which is a better situation for many doctors. They aren't going to care about the property prices. BC is a nice place to live, and all else being equal with a government who's at least trying to work with Doctors, you'll see many leave. Many have already left, just because they still have their license here doesn't mean they're still here.

We know two doctors that have left for the Yukon because they are treated better, so BC certainly isn't a stretch.

Instead of enjoy those BC property prices I'd say Alberta should probably enjoy those naturopaths and nurse practitioners.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

So basically the same as BC will be paying them, and BC is not fee for service which is a better situation for many doctors. They aren't going to care about the property prices. BC is a nice place to live, and all else being equal with a government who's at least trying to work with Doctors, you'll see many leave. Many have already left, just because they still have their license here doesn't mean they're still here.

We know two doctors that have left for the Yukon because they are treated better, so BC certainly isn't a stretch.

Instead of enjoy those BC property prices I'd say Alberta should probably enjoy those naturopaths and nurse practitioners.

Sounds good you’ve only been saying that for close to half a decade.

“Aren’t going to care about property prices” right..

Some day you’ll convince the primary income earner in your house to leave Alberta, we will just hear about it for another decade..

[Wormius]

God, how is someone pulling in $400k a year going to afford a place to live??

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Sounds good you’ve only been saying that for close to half a decade.

“Aren’t going to care about property prices” right..

Some day you’ll convince the primary income earner in your house to leave Alberta, we will just hear about it for another decade..

Maybe just address the main point that was made, in that BC compensation is not fee for service, we know several doctors that have left, several on the fence before this announcement, and several who will be on the fence after this announcement. My wife hasn't even been a physician for half a decade, and you know nothing about my family situation and why we would or wouldn't leave. So stop talking about things you know nothing about. I'm not so insecure that you stating my significant other is the primary earner is any kind of insult. I have a great job situation.

At the start of the pandemic the AB government was really screwing over hcw's. Then they were forced to walk back many of their idiotic decisions. Then they offered a terrible contract, then they walked it back and made it somewhat acceptable. As long as things work out ok, why leave? If it gets terrible because we have awful leadership, why stay? If other places make it appealing many will leave.

The ignorant pot shots instead of addressing what was said aren't needed.

[Ozy_Flame]

That kind of pay increase is going to change the fence sitters to car drivers. And from what I can tell from docs with one foot out the door, that would certainly be the tipping point. BC is the most commonly discussed destination among other Alberts physicians from what I can see.

I'm going to a physician event this weekend, so I imagine this one is going to be a hot topic.

To be clear, this isn't good news for Alberta. That's the kind of pay increase that shows BC is calling - and they're serious.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Sounds good you’ve only been saying that for close to half a decade.

“Aren’t going to care about property prices” right..

Some day you’ll convince the primary income earner in your house to leave Alberta, we will just hear about it for another decade..

I don't understand why some people get so huffy about others having opportunities and careers outside of Alberta. There's lots of amazing opportunities outside of these provincial borders, especially if you're an educated and trained professional. BC has just made themselves that much more attractive to doctors, who are already in short supply. The majority of Canadians don't live here, and aren't moving here.

The butthurt is truly bizarre with some crowds. It's like the rest of Canada is a wasteland or something to them.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't understand why some people get so huffy about others having opportunities and careers outside of Alberta. There's lots of amazing opportunities outside of these provincial borders, especially if you're an educated and trained professional. BC has just made themselves that much more attractive to doctors, who are already in short supply. The majority of Canadians don't live here, and aren't moving here.

The butthurt is truly bizarre with some crowds. It's like the rest of Canada is a wasteland or something to them.

Well the side who keeps asking why everyone is afraid of differing opinions gets really upset when people have different opinions.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't understand why some people get so huffy about others having opportunities and careers outside of Alberta. There's lots of amazing opportunities outside of these provincial borders, especially if you're an educated and trained professional. BC has just made themselves that much more attractive to doctors, who are already in short supply. The majority of Canadians don't live here, and aren't moving here.

The butthurt is truly bizarre with some crowds. It's like the rest of Canada is a wasteland or something to them.

I think part of it is the irrationality at which some of the choices were presented. Smith won so its time to leave was a really stupid narrative. It didn’t change anything from when Kenny was running.

BC increases pay by 50% to match Alberta is not a stupid reason to think people will reconsider their options. Especially when a person with one income at 400k can quite easily afford 10k per month in mortgage costs and a double doctor 20-30. That gets you into 2-4 million dollar homes which are assets rather than sunk costs.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think part of it is the irrationality at which some of the choices were presented. Smith won so its time to leave was a really stupid narrative. It didn’t change anything from when Kenny was running.

I guess I just don't understand this; just because you think a specific reason to leave is 'stupid', doesn't mean others do. AFireInside and Ozy_Flame both know people who have left during the UCP government's run. So do I. Real people, leaving.

Crappy politics and an observation of poor provincial direction going forward are legit reasons to leave - if Smith gets into power for four more years after May, it's even more legit reason for some people to bounce (if the UCP's extremely poor performance wasn't a good reason already). As a professional in a universal (non-Alberta locked) industry myself, I will seriously consider leaving if a Smith-run UCP does win next year. I am born here but definitely not bound here. Love Alberta, but life is extremely short and it's big world out there with many fantastic opportunities. The rest of the world isn't a boogeyman compared to Alberta, lol.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think part of it is the irrationality at which some of the choices were presented. Smith won so its time to leave was a really stupid narrative. It didn’t change anything from when Kenny was running.

I don't think many are really truly saying this though. In my household our thought was always let's see how it goes. Started out terrible, then they walked stupid policies back, then offered a terrible contract and then they walked a lot of it back.

For us it's always been let's see how it goes, and get to 2023. For others, especially younger doctors considering staying who haven't put down roots yet it's much easier to get up and go.

These are the doctors you should be trying to attract and we're doing the opposite. If my job situation changed there would be almost no reason for us to stay and BC would be look pretty great.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wormius

God, how is someone pulling in $400k a year going to afford a place to live??

I don't think that is anything close to take-home though? I could be wrong, but I thought from that they had to pay for their family practice, so things like rent, admin assistant, cleaning, supplies, literally everything that allows them to work...but maybe I've got that wrong.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't think that is anything close to take-home though? I could be wrong, but I thought from that they had to pay for their family practice, so things like rent, admin assistant, cleaning, supplies, literally everything that allows them to work...but maybe I've got that wrong.

I would assume that is gross and before the 30-40% fee they pay the clinic.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't think that is anything close to take-home though? I could be wrong, but I thought from that they had to pay for their family practice, so things like rent, admin assistant, cleaning, supplies, literally everything that allows them to work...but maybe I've got that wrong.

I would think that the numbers mentioned are average gross income per doctor, so a doctor on his/her own in a private practice paying all costs is doing just ok.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Muta

I guess I just don't understand this; just because you think a specific reason to leave is 'stupid', doesn't mean others do. AFireInside and Ozy_Flame both know people who have left during the UCP government's run. So do I. Real people, leaving.

Crappy politics and an observation of poor provincial direction going forward are legit reasons to leave - if Smith gets into power for four more years after May, it's even more legit reason for some people to bounce (if the UCP's extremely poor performance wasn't a good reason already). As a professional in a universal (non-Alberta locked) industry myself, I will seriously consider leaving if a Smith-run UCP does win next year. I am born here but definitely not bound here. Love Alberta, but life is extremely short and it's big world out there with many fantastic opportunities. The rest of the world isn't a boogeyman compared to Alberta, lol.

Specifically I was referring to the last round between Smith and Kenny. If you didn’t leave after Kenny but now are leaving because of Smith which was a contention in the last few weeks of this thread that makes no sense. Also if you say people are leaving because of Kenny while Covid is also occurring I question the ability to parse out causality.

But I do agree if Smith is elected again you will see people leave and I think you will be able to attribute that to Smith. I don’t think you will see many disagree with you on that point.

[Ozy_Flame]

What are you not understanding here? Kenney was bad, Smith is the impetus to push people out. It's happening, and there are no guarantees she will be removed in 2023. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't honor the four-year election call and decided to park her ass until 2024 (like Stelmach did).

People did leave because of Kenney's healthcare portfolio - the failed UCP pandemic response, the AMA contract tearing, the lack of respect for nurses and healthcare facility workers, it's all there, and about to get worse. And then suddenly other provinces start competing for talent? What do you think is going to happen?

Just because people make life decisions that you wouldn't doesn't make them wrong, nor do they care about whether you think they're "parsing out causality".

You over-think things too much and worry far too largely about how others make decisions. That's a regular theme for you.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Suave

I would assume that is gross and before the 30-40% fee they pay the clinic.

This is accurate, and that average wage can be really skewed for several reasons.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

I at no point suggested that. I suggested that a 10 hour standard of care was reasonable and if you don’t die in an emergency room your visit was successful.

That you want to extrapolate my comments further is on you.

Yes, I have the ability to evaluate the context and overall message of multiple comments on the same subject taken together. I also understand human emotion and don’t have trouble understanding why people hate sitting in a room for 10 hours when they could be rescheduled to come back later or be given an appointment for a more appropriate point of care.

Honest question: do you? I absolutely mean no offence by this, but as Ozy said, you seem to struggle with the fact that people don’t breakdown decisions in the same way you do and have emotional (and not just logical) reactions to things. It’d be nice to know if there was a better way to communicate with you to adapt conversation styles to your method of thinking.

[Lubicon]

Have not seen any evidence that the BC pay increase will actually improve patient access to healthcare (I have not looked at the details so stand to be corrected). The argument could be made that if doctors no longer need to push through as many patients as possible in order for the billing to cover their costs they might actually see fewer patients than they do now. Better care, but for fewer people. Unless this entices more doctors to actually locate to BC it may not do much to resolve the patient access issue. Good for the doctors however, this seems like a way better pay for service model than other provinces are using.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yes, I have the ability to evaluate the context and overall message of multiple comments on the same subject taken together. I also understand human emotion and don’t have trouble understanding why people hate sitting in a room for 10 hours when they could be rescheduled to come back later or be given an appointment for a more appropriate point of care.

Honest question: do you? I absolutely mean no offence by this, but as Ozy said, you seem to struggle with the fact that people don’t breakdown decisions in the same way you do and have emotional (and not just logical) reactions to things. It’d be nice to know if there was a better way to communicate with you to adapt conversation styles to your method of thinking.

Why do you assume I struggle with it? I probably am dismissive of it. Assuming I don’t care about emotional arguments is probably a better assumption then I don’t understand emotional arguments.

I don’t think I ever said I was confused why someone might be angry for sitting in a room for 10 hrs. Can you reference what gave you that impression? I intended to say that I thought it was an acceptable outcome of the ER system. Of course a person would be upset having that wait time. When I read your responses to my posts I find they often assume a bunch of things that are not stated.

For example on the ER I asked initially if 10hrs was actually unreasonable. You seemed to assume that I didn’t understand something rather than accept my statement that I find a 10 hr wait acceptable.

Look at posts 3361 and 3362. I’m not sure how I could have better communicated to you my position that 10hrs in an ER was acceptable yet you assumed I was confused about something. What is a better way for me to communicate with you.

I certainly am dismissive of people who try to justify an position by making an emotional argument.