Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 10-17-2022, 09:33 AM   #2441
LanceUppercut
Scoring Winger
 
LanceUppercut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Springfield
Exp:
Default

We need more money for public education. It's clearly failing a lot of people.
__________________
Your real name?

Uh... Lance Uppercut.
LanceUppercut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to LanceUppercut For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 09:35 AM   #2442
Dentoman
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by belsarius View Post

What I am seeing, is the moderate conservatives are no longer putting up with the dumpster fire that modern conservative politics has turned into, and would rather shift a little left than go all the way to the crazy right.

And that used to be Canadian Politics for generations. Liberals to the centre and the PCs to the centre right. Both different, but close enough that you could switch back and forth without too much change in your daily life. That isn't the way anymore, and most moderates hate it because they are having to choose a side.

This forum is an overall right-leaning place, but Smith is just so far right that anything normal now looks left wing to her acolytes.
As a moderate conservative, I absolutely agree with this post, especially the bolded part. Since the moderates seem to have disappeared on at least the leadership level, the voting choices have significantly more long term effects personally/financially than they used to. The middle used to be a good place to be

Last edited by Dentoman; 10-17-2022 at 09:39 AM.
Dentoman is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dentoman For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 09:36 AM   #2443
powderjunkie
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Roman14 View Post
Where exactly would people like protests of the federal government?
In front of your house.
powderjunkie is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to powderjunkie For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 09:39 AM   #2444
iggy_oi
Franchise Player
 
iggy_oi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjunkie View Post
In front of your house.
The correct answer is what happened in Ottawa and at the borders weren’t protests, they were illegal occupations and blockades.
iggy_oi is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to iggy_oi For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 09:42 AM   #2445
Dentoman
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Roman14 View Post

I do believe the sovereignty act has potential to be very good for Albertans and protect us if being stomped on by Ottawa. It doesn’t have to be used all the time but can be enacted in a time of Albertans feel like their best interests aren’t being taken seriously or to our full potential. Why would investment run from a province who has the ability to have more control over prosperity and the prosperity of those who invest in our province.

How did allowing Ottawa to squash any and all pipelines help with investment? Why not try and take back some ability to control our destiny over bad policy for our area?
How come people keep forgetting Alberta is totally land locked?!?! We need help from the rest of Canada to get our product to market. The “Sovereignty Pipe Dream” just creates animosity and makes it harder
Dentoman is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dentoman For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 09:44 AM   #2446
powderjunkie
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Exp:
Default

https://www.bugeyedandshameless.com/...=twitter&sd=pf

A bit of an aggregation of some of the bat#### crazy things she's said, but there are a few that I had not yet read:

Quote:
Could we create a border crossing of our own at Coutts [AB] or some other border crossing? And have a special category for Albertans who are coming into Alberta and have pledged that they will not leave our province for 14 days — then we can say: ‘We've made our own judgment, and our own decisions about our own level of risk, and don't you worry, these folks aren't going to get on the plane and go to B.C., or Saskatchewan or out East. So, sorry, federal government, you've got no jurisdiction.’ Or could we charter our own aircraft and say: ‘In chartering our own aircraft, we assert provincial autonomy, and we determine what our level of risk is,’ and then you do rapid testing. I don't know like, it seems to me, we've got to do something other than just sitting back and saying we're going to wait for Ottawa to make these decisions.

Maybe we get a cross border agreement with Ron DeSantis. Maybe he has a little zone in Florida that we would be able to fly direct to. Maybe we can develop bilateral agreements with other free states. So red state jurisdictions in the US, or even internationally, that would allow for us to have a little more autonomy.
powderjunkie is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to powderjunkie For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 09:46 AM   #2447
Izzle
First Line Centre
 
Izzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjunkie View Post
https://www.bugeyedandshameless.com/...=twitter&sd=pf

A bit of an aggregation of some of the bat#### crazy things she's said, but there are a few that I had not yet read:
How will my Alberta taxes NOT go up if all this nonsense is implemented?
Izzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 09:51 AM   #2448
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Roman14 View Post
While far out of the reach of the ability of the Alberta government, there is still a mandate saying healthy individuals cannot enter the US. While minimal, there are still policies in place pertaining to COVID , and if the NDP been in would likely still be more in place yet.

I personally don’t see it as a divide, but a pledge to do better if/when a similar situation arises in the future.


I do believe the sovereignty act has potential to be very good for Albertans and protect us if being stomped on by Ottawa. It doesn’t have to be used all the time but can be enacted in a time of Albertans feel like their best interests aren’t being taken seriously or to our full potential. Why would investment run from a province who has the ability to have more control over prosperity and the prosperity of those who invest in our province.

How did allowing Ottawa to squash any and all pipelines help with investment? Why not try and take back some ability to control our destiny over bad policy for our area?
What do you mean "do better"? Without restrictions on al of society, our healthcare system would have collapse. What is "better"? Having people needing simple life saving treatments die? Is that better? You get to go to Denny's, and Fred gets an untreated heart attack? This is where Danielle Smith-like thinking falls completely apart, yet you are too thick to accept the reality your positions would represent, content to espouse your selfish ways that lead to death and suffering.
Fuzz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 09:51 AM   #2449
KelVarnsen
Franchise Player
 
KelVarnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
Exp:
Default

KelVarnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KelVarnsen For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 09:51 AM   #2450
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by belsarius View Post
As a socialist I take issue with the idea that this forum is left leaning without any opposition. I have found a lot of push back against the NDP, especially while they were in power. I have had many debates calling her out and going against her economics because they were more Keynesian than Neoliberal.

What I am seeing, is the moderate conservatives are no longer putting up with the dumpster fire that modern conservative politics has turned into, and would rather shift a little left than go all the way to the crazy right.

And that used to be Canadian Politics for generations. Liberals to the centre and the PCs to the centre right. Both different, but close enough that you could switch back and forth without too much change in your daily life. That isn't the way anymore, and most moderates hate it because they are having to choose a side.

This forum is an overall right-leaning place, but Smith is just so far right that anything normal now looks left wing to her acolytes.
As a fellow socialist I genuinely lol any time someone calls this place left-leaning. Oh, why, because people are critical of someone who says some of the most genuinely dumb things a Canadian politician in her position has ever said? Yeah, trust me, I wish having even average human intelligence turned you into a left wing, socialist supporting activist but unfortunately that’s not how it goes.

These people don’t know what the centre is, let alone the left. They think saying things like “maybe our corporate taxes shouldn’t be far lower than anywhere in the country?” is akin to hanging a poster of Stalin on your wall and advocating for breadlines. Criticizing Smith for saying something any half-informed person can confirm as stupid? Wow comrade, sounds like you’re ready to seize the means of production!
PepsiFree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 09:52 AM   #2451
gasman
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Roman14 View Post
While far out of the reach of the ability of the Alberta government, there is still a mandate saying healthy individuals cannot enter the US. While minimal, there are still policies in place pertaining to COVID , and if the NDP been in would likely still be more in place yet.

I personally don’t see it as a divide, but a pledge to do better if/when a similar situation arises in the future.

I do believe the sovereignty act has potential to be very good for Albertans and protect us if being stomped on by Ottawa. It doesn’t have to be used all the time but can be enacted in a time of Albertans feel like their best interests aren’t being taken seriously or to our full potential. Why would investment run from a province who has the ability to have more control over prosperity and the prosperity of those who invest in our province.

How did allowing Ottawa to squash any and all pipelines help with investment? Why not try and take back some ability to control our destiny over bad policy for our area?

Are there any mandates in Canada preventing "healthy" people from traveling to the USA. The only vaccination requirements I am aware of would be from American Authorities, as Canada has no requirements at this time.

as of October 1, 2022 travelers entering Canada:

Proof of COVID-19 vaccination is not required
COVID-19 pre-entry and arrival tests are not required
Quarantine after you enter Canada is not required
Using ArriveCAN is not required
If you’re flying into Toronto Pearson, Vancouver, or Montréal-Trudeau international airports, you can still use ArriveCAN to complete your Advance CBSA Declaration to save time upon arrival
Pre-boarding tests for cruise passengers are not required
As always, travel documents are required
Health checks to board planes and trains are not required
Wearing masks on planes and trains is not required

source https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid
gasman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gasman For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 09:54 AM   #2452
GGG
Franchise Player
 
GGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Roman14 View Post
While far out of the reach of the ability of the Alberta government, there is still a mandate saying healthy individuals cannot enter the US. While minimal, there are still policies in place pertaining to COVID , and if the NDP been in would likely still be more in place yet.

I personally don’t see it as a divide, but a pledge to do better if/when a similar situation arises in the future.

I do believe the sovereignty act has potential to be very good for Albertans and protect us if being stomped on by Ottawa. It doesn’t have to be used all the time but can be enacted in a time of Albertans feel like their best interests aren’t being taken seriously or to our full potential. Why would investment run from a province who has the ability to have more control over prosperity and the prosperity of those who invest in our province.

How did allowing Ottawa to squash any and all pipelines help with investment? Why not try and take back some ability to control our destiny over bad policy for our area?
How does the sovereignty act help more pipelines get constructed? The current federal government will have the Line 3 expansion and TMX come online. With TMX in particular the current government saved the pipeline after regulatory failures of the previous government. So I guess I don’t understand the basis for the statement quash any and all pipelines. I also don’t see how the sovereignty act would helped Northern Gateway or Keystone get constructed.

As to why the sovereignty act kills investment is it creates an uncertain regulatory regime in the province. How can you invest if it’s uncertain any of the laws and regulations actually apply. Say for instance the sovereignty act is used to try to fight the carbon tax. Would a company invest using economics based on not having to pay carbon taxes on emmissions? Or would they have to wait until the resultant court cases over the constitutionality of the act are settled.

Any good business would wait or not account for it in economics or seek guarantees from the province that they would not be liable for any violation of federal regulations. In any case uncertainty is going to harm business investment

Can you explain an instance of being “stomped by Ottawa” that you believe the sovereignty act will help?
GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 10:01 AM   #2453
Torture
Loves Teh Chat!
 
Torture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
How does the sovereignty act help more pipelines get constructed? The current federal government will have the Line 3 expansion and TMX come online. With TMX in particular the current government saved the pipeline after regulatory failures of the previous government. So I guess I don’t understand the basis for the statement quash any and all pipelines. I also don’t see how the sovereignty act would helped Northern Gateway or Keystone get constructed.

As to why the sovereignty act kills investment is it creates an uncertain regulatory regime in the province. How can you invest if it’s uncertain any of the laws and regulations actually apply. Say for instance the sovereignty act is used to try to fight the carbon tax. Would a company invest using economics based on not having to pay carbon taxes on emmissions? Or would they have to wait until the resultant court cases over the constitutionality of the act are settled.

Any good business would wait or not account for it in economics or seek guarantees from the province that they would not be liable for any violation of federal regulations. In any case uncertainty is going to harm business investment

Can you explain an instance of being “stomped by Ottawa” that you believe the sovereignty act will help?
And if we can bring in a "Sovereignty Act" and ignore Federal jurisdiction, what's stopping BC or QC from doing the same and killing any future pipelines?
Nevermind the fact that it's not even legal, it's just so ####ing stupid if you think about it for even a second.
Torture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 10:02 AM   #2454
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

OK I have no actual will to do the research myself - is someone willing to post a TLDR version of what this Sovereignty Act is actually supposed to do?
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 10:10 AM   #2455
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iggy_oi View Post
The correct answer is what happened in Ottawa and at the borders weren’t protests, they were illegal occupations and blockades.
Going against my better judgment here, but there is a troubling element about the government using the emergency measures to quell the protests. They could've tried other avenues, and sure didn't seem to. When you have had other protests (for example the rail blockades), the government negotiated and tried to resolve those matters. Why did they jump right to restricting peoples rights here?

For the record, I didn't love the truckers convoy, but I do have concerns about how this was handled. It's kind of a "I might disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it" scenario for me.

And as far as characterizing their protests as "illegal occupations", that is what civil disobedience is. It's non-violent protest. Again, their particular message here wasn't mine, but non-violent protest is a big deal. And to be clear, part of that civil disobedience is people getting arrested and detained for those actions. It's basically how things should be functioning in a democracy in my view, but the restriction of rights is something that has to be examined.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 10:13 AM   #2456
Makarov
Franchise Player
 
Makarov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Moscow
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
OK I have no actual will to do the research myself - is someone willing to post a TLDR version of what this Sovereignty Act is actually supposed to do?
As I understand it, its just supposed to override the Constitution Act, 1982 or something.
__________________
"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
Makarov is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Makarov For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 10:14 AM   #2457
Fighting Banana Slug
#1 Goaltender
 
Fighting Banana Slug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
OK I have no actual will to do the research myself - is someone willing to post a TLDR version of what this Sovereignty Act is actually supposed to do?
I'll take a stab: An act which "allows" Alberta to ignore federal laws which are within the federal mandate, making the Sovereignty Act clearly ultra vires and will be shot down immediately by the courts.

Massive waste of money and effort.
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
Fighting Banana Slug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 10:15 AM   #2458
GordonBlue
Franchise Player
 
GordonBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
OK I have no actual will to do the research myself - is someone willing to post a TLDR version of what this Sovereignty Act is actually supposed to do?
this link sums it up.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...overeignty-act

According to the overview, the act would affirm the authority of the legislature to refuse provincial enforcement of specific federal laws or policies “that violate the jurisdictional rights of Alberta” under the Constitution of Canada or Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
GordonBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2022, 10:17 AM   #2459
Yikes
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava View Post
Going against my better judgment here, but there is a troubling element about the government using the emergency measures to quell the protests. They could've tried other avenues, and sure didn't seem to. When you have had other protests (for example the rail blockades), the government negotiated and tried to resolve those matters. Why did they jump right to restricting peoples rights here?

For the record, I didn't love the truckers convoy, but I do have concerns about how this was handled. It's kind of a "I might disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it" scenario for me.

And as far as characterizing their protests as "illegal occupations", that is what civil disobedience is. It's non-violent protest. Again, their particular message here wasn't mine, but non-violent protest is a big deal. And to be clear, part of that civil disobedience is people getting arrested and detained for those actions. It's basically how things should be functioning in a democracy in my view, but the restriction of rights is something that has to be examined.

Bottom line, pretty obvious that regardless of the location of these "protests" numerous laws were broken. From the top down the cops failed to do their jobs. If they had acted to enforce laws within certain time periods we would not be having this discussion. They did not, lost control, blamed others.
Yikes is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Yikes For This Useful Post:
Old 10-17-2022, 10:20 AM   #2460
14Roman14
Backup Goalie
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG View Post
How does the sovereignty act help more pipelines get constructed? The current federal government will have the Line 3 expansion and TMX come online. With TMX in particular the current government saved the pipeline after regulatory failures of the previous government. So I guess I don’t understand the basis for the statement quash any and all pipelines. I also don’t see how the sovereignty act would helped Northern Gateway or Keystone get constructed.

As to why the sovereignty act kills investment is it creates an uncertain regulatory regime in the province. How can you invest if it’s uncertain any of the laws and regulations actually apply. Say for instance the sovereignty act is used to try to fight the carbon tax. Would a company invest using economics based on not having to pay carbon taxes on emmissions? Or would they have to wait until the resultant court cases over the constitutionality of the act are settled.

Any good business would wait or not account for it in economics or seek guarantees from the province that they would not be liable for any violation of federal regulations. In any case uncertainty is going to harm business investment

Can you explain an instance of being “stomped by Ottawa” that you believe the sovereignty act will help?
If they are already planning on investing here with the carbon tax in place, why would it be different if it was in the challenge being in the courts. They either pay it as is, or pay it if the court case is lost or best case they don’t pay it at all if the court case is won.

As for the carbon tax it would allow us to challenge it on the process of our ability to use technology to recapture. We could use arguments that show how much of the new technology could lower the carbon footprint and allow other ways that Alberta is doing their part but challenge the carbon tax as it is hurting all Albertans.

Another major federal policy is the fertilizer ban on Canadian farmers. Trudeau is calling for major fertile reduction in the coming years. Canadian farmers already use very efficient strategies to minimize fertilizer use but yet use the right amount to achieve the highest possible yields. That policy would do nothing but cost Canadian farmers yields and profits. A profitable agriculture industry is one that helps all of Alberta. In a time where the world needs more food, it seems asinine that a government would enact policies that force farmers to produce less food and pay less income taxes.
The sovereignty act could protect Albertans in that situation.
14Roman14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:56 PM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021