09-12-2024, 03:45 PM
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#961
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent
This is all correct.
So let's also disspell right now the fantasy that Leon averages 100 points like no other player in history including Gretzky and that they won't get better by allocatimg much more cap to the same few players.
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It really can be summed up as Edmonton is no good.
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09-12-2024, 03:55 PM
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#962
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho0978
I agree, the number maybe not completely irrelevant, but for me fair is around $13 to $14 mil. To me this contract is on the higher end of fair and no way is a discount. I think if he wanted north of $14 mil you have to consider other options.
Of course, it would be much better if he signed for $12.5 mil or less, but that wasn't an option unless he took a discount.
The issue the Oilers have is Nurse, Campbell, Neal, Brown's bonus and 0 ELC's and cheap RFA contracts with term on their team. These issues do not make Leon's contract bad. It's not a great contract, it has risk but the idea that they could just land a high end dman with a good contract and term on that contract or they would be better off walking him to UFA is just ridiculous. They made the right choice, especially if they want to keep McDavid too.
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That is just it. He took his payday because all those players got paid. Of course he could have taken less to help the team, but at the end of the day no other player has, so why should he if he is one of a very few that are carrying the team.
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09-12-2024, 04:09 PM
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#963
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob
That is just it. He took his payday because all those players got paid. Of course he could have taken less to help the team, but at the end of the day no other player has, so why should he if he is one of a very few that are carrying the team.
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I agree and over the next few years there will be more. Most are assuming that the 2 Oilers will be 1 and 2 highest paid in the league. It will be very interesting to see what kind of year Bedard has and what Chicago needs to fork out. I could see north of $14 mil happening.
Colorado has Rantanen and Makar to deal with as well but maybe they match MacKinnon.
The Leafs drafted some young stars and now are dealing with massive cap hits.
None of these teams will be looking at walking these types of players to UFA rather than paying them when they see what rebuilding teams have to fork out for guys like Bedard.
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09-12-2024, 05:16 PM
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#964
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho0978
I agree and over the next few years there will be more. Most are assuming that the 2 Oilers will be 1 and 2 highest paid in the league. It will be very interesting to see what kind of year Bedard has and what Chicago needs to fork out. I could see north of $14 mil happening.
Colorado has Rantanen and Makar to deal with as well but maybe they match MacKinnon.
The Leafs drafted some young stars and now are dealing with massive cap hits.
None of these teams will be looking at walking these types of players to UFA rather than paying them when they see what rebuilding teams have to fork out for guys like Bedard.
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I don't see Bedard at $14mil/year on his next deal unless he is well over 100 pts. in each of the next few seasons. Even then, it could still be closer to 12.
That's the thing about the Leon contract, he needs to be a top 5 player for almost the entire term for it to really make sense. McDavid will get more, probably Matthews next one and then maybe Bedard. Most of the top guys have been paid and have term. The next set of stars may be a ways off.
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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09-12-2024, 07:08 PM
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#965
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Indiana
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 1qqaaz For This Useful Post:
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09-12-2024, 07:46 PM
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#966
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
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Foegele's xgf is always better than his actual gf%.
Every regular season with the Oilers and especially the playoffs.
Foegele's GF with the Oilers in the playoffs.
30%
37.5%
34.62%
His regular seasons:
46.25%
54.69%
51.09%
Henrique's last three regular seasons with the Ducks:
49.44%
48.61%
50%
With the Oilers in the regular season:
68%
Playoffs:
60%
Anyone want to bet who has the better gf% this season?
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09-12-2024, 08:40 PM
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#967
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Stain
Foegele's xgf is always better than his actual gf%.
Every regular season with the Oilers and especially the playoffs.
Foegele's GF with the Oilers in the playoffs.
30%
37.5%
34.62%
His regular seasons:
46.25%
54.69%
51.09%
Henrique's last three regular seasons with the Ducks:
49.44%
48.61%
50%
With the Oilers in the regular season:
68%
Playoffs:
60%
Anyone want to bet who has the better gf% this season?
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Oilers are trash. Who cares?
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The Following User Says Thank You to dieHARDflameZ For This Useful Post:
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09-13-2024, 09:41 AM
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#968
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug
I don't see Bedard at $14mil/year on his next deal unless he is well over 100 pts. in each of the next few seasons. Even then, it could still be closer to 12.
That's the thing about the Leon contract, he needs to be a top 5 player for almost the entire term for it to really make sense. McDavid will get more, probably Matthews next one and then maybe Bedard. Most of the top guys have been paid and have term. The next set of stars may be a ways off.
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If it is an 8-year deal? He will be 21 and you are suggesting he will get slightly more than Nylander? $12 mil is a lock, 100 points wrapping up a guy til he is 29? $14 mil is very likely to happen.
I wouldn't be shocked that if he scores 50 and 100 and he gets close to Mcdavid money.
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09-13-2024, 11:10 AM
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#969
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho0978
If it is an 8-year deal? He will be 21 and you are suggesting he will get slightly more than Nylander? $12 mil is a lock, 100 points wrapping up a guy til he is 29? $14 mil is very likely to happen.
I wouldn't be shocked that if he scores 50 and 100 and he gets close to Mcdavid money.
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I am just saying that 14 might be the over/under for Bedard. He might get over, but it might be a little under as well. Proven stars have barely nudged past McDavid's 12.5 over the past 6 years. I think Leon's 14 was a fairly big jump, so anything in the 13.5 range might be where the next set of stars land and those stars will be tightly bunched, below McDavid and probably below Leon.
I am a big Bedard fan, but it isn't inconceivable that he trends closer to 80-100 points during his ELC. If that is the case, it will be interesting to see what the next contract looks like. Perhaps he takes a Matthews strategy and goes for shorter term. Who knows.
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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09-14-2024, 01:52 AM
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#970
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Internationalvillager is literally arguing that Draisaitl will be the best 30 years old to retirement player in NHL history.
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The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to jayswin For This Useful Post:
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09-14-2024, 01:53 AM
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#971
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
Internationalvillager is literally arguing that Draisaitl will be the best 30 years old to retirement player in NHL history.
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but totally a hardcore Flames fan and not an Oiler fan at all
__________________
GFG
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dino7c For This Useful Post:
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09-14-2024, 08:31 AM
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#972
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob
That is just it. He took his payday because all those players got paid. Of course he could have taken less to help the team, but at the end of the day no other player has, so why should he if he is one of a very few that are carrying the team.
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Why would any player take less to “help the team”? Nobody does that in any other occupation. It is such a weird concept to me.
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09-14-2024, 09:34 AM
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#973
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 55...Can you see us now?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
Internationalvillager is literally arguing that Draisaitl will be the best 30 years old to retirement player in NHL history.
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You take that back.
The argument was that Draisaitl AND McDavid will individually be the best 29 to retirement players in the history of the NHL. Based upon Crosby.
Also claims to celebrate oilers players but a flames fan.
__________________
Franchise > Team > Player
Future historians will celebrate June 24, 2024 as the date when the timeline corrected itself.
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09-14-2024, 09:53 AM
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#974
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarongavey
Why would any player take less to “help the team”? Nobody does that in any other occupation. It is such a weird concept to me.
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It is a very weird thing at keeps coming out of the Oilers media.
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09-14-2024, 11:52 PM
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#975
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarongavey
Why would any player take less to “help the team”? Nobody does that in any other occupation. It is such a weird concept to me.
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Most companies don't have salary caps and most employees aren't that invested in the success of the company. If you can get multiple players to each take a little less it could definitely help if winning is the ultimate goal.
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09-15-2024, 09:50 AM
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#976
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Oct 2007
Exp:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackey
Most companies don't have salary caps and most employees aren't that invested in the success of the company. If you can get multiple players to each take a little less it could definitely help if winning is the ultimate goal.
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Agreed, but it only makes sense for the very top players or older players close to retirement. If someone like McDavid is truly committed to winning in Edmonton, him taking $1 million less per year for his next contract could make sense. Dropping his career earnings from (ballpark) $200 million to $192 million doesn’t really move the needle for him personally. Based on Draisaitl’s contract, though, that much hyped “take a discount to win in Edmonton” concept is totally false.
Likewise, someone at age 35, who already has the bulk of their career earning behind them, might take less to go to a contender.
Players like Holloway or Broberg should never, ever give a discount. They need to maximize their earnings as much as possible.
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09-15-2024, 12:51 PM
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#977
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Indiana
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Up until the 2022 season, no team had ever won the cup with a player making 10 mill. Florida and Vegas has since won cups with players making barely that amount.
It will be interesting to see if there is a 14 million curse.
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09-15-2024, 02:12 PM
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#978
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
Up until the 2022 season, no team had ever won the cup with a player making 10 mill. Florida and Vegas has since won cups with players making barely that amount.
It will be interesting to see if there is a 14 million curse.
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How about 2 players 14+
Im.guessing we dont see that for a while
__________________
GFG
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09-15-2024, 02:21 PM
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#979
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
Internationalvillager is literally arguing that Draisaitl will be the best 30 years old to retirement player in NHL history.
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I'm arguing that guys like Kucherov, Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews, Draisaitl, even Pastrnak, Rantanen will outperform historical metrics of a "Age 30 to retirement" players.
It's going to be a full on shift in the entire game / database and we will be here to witness it.
They won't just fall off a cliff. More and more players will be more productive for longer.
Game's changed.
If Cale Makar was available in UFA to Calgary - I would have no issue with the Flames giving up 7 Years + $14M+ per season until Age 36.
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09-15-2024, 03:01 PM
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#980
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Participant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalVillager
I'm arguing that guys like Kucherov, Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews, Draisaitl, even Pastrnak, Rantanen will outperform historical metrics of a "Age 30 to retirement" players.
It's going to be a full on shift in the entire game / database and we will be here to witness it.
They won't just fall off a cliff. More and more players will be more productive for longer.
Game's changed.
If Cale Makar was available in UFA to Calgary - I would have no issue with the Flames giving up 7 Years + $14M+ per season until Age 36.
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Without going back through everything to find it, what’s the evidence supporting this?
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