de Grood to be transferred to hospital for assessment - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

woob · 10-01-2019, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

This is brutal, just another piece of evidence that our country is descending into a backwards world of moral decay and corruption.

transplant99 · 10-01-2019, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

This is brutal, just another piece of evidence that our country is descending into a backwards world of moral decay and corruption.

Well i dont know about all that, but i do know that this feels all kinds of wrong.

CaptainYooh · 10-01-2019, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

...
This is allowing him, on a good day, to grab a bag of chips from the grocery store down the street with permission from a doctor.

and why shouldn't he? He could also look up Jasmine Richardson to meet for coffee and chat at the Mount Royal University cafeteria. You know, to reminisce about stuff...

jayswin · 10-01-2019, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

This is brutal, just another piece of evidence that our country is descending into a backwards world of moral decay and corruption.

Even just putting aside your contempt for the ruling, how in the world would "moral decay" and "corruption" fit into this case?

woob · 10-01-2019, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

That OK with you?

Yup its ok that you disagree! However I am glad we have people with experience, education, and level headed thinking who make choices/decisions/judgement on these matters, rather than people who view the matter only with emotion and fear.

And yes, the families are fully in their right to be angry/frustrated/sad/scared with this, but as a society we've decided this his how these cases will be handled for now, with the knowledge that changes may happen down the road.

Oh and I don't know Oling other than reading his posts, just FYI!

jayswin · 10-01-2019, 04:30 PM

Very well said.

Oling_Roachinen · 10-01-2019, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why release him until it is certain that he wont relapse and go kill more people?

Because they aren't. Everything he does, including leaving the building, will require permission from his doctors. He's not getting a clear pass here, he's not even transitioning into a group home at this stage despite the recommendation. Leave it to the doctors, the trained professionals that are evaluating him, to determine what he's capable of or not capable of doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

But yeah...him going for slurpees (and still having a chance to re-offend even if a low chance) is deemed to be more important than the effect it will have on the victims family and friends knowing this murderer is walking freely.

To me. Absolutely it is far more important. I obviously feel sympathy for the victims and their families. But Canada has a justice system that I will happily defend even if I don't always agree with the outcomes, the premise is sound.

The biggest being innocent until proven guilty. In this case he was not criminally responsible, therefore never found guilty, because of his limited/no ability to consciously offend at the time of the attack. There's no room for "punishment" because he wasn't capable of making his own decisions. It's now about his risk to the public, in which case...I'll defer to the doctors.

Fuzz · 10-01-2019, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah i understand it thanks, but i entirely disagree with it. That OK with you?

He killed 5 people not even 6 years ago.

He is still a significant risk to the pubic. From those same doctors...but I guess that one is easy to ignore for you?

Why release him until it is certain that he wont relapse and go kill more people?

But yeah...him going for slurpees (and still having a chance to re-offend even if a low chance) is deemed to be more important than the effect it will have on the victims family and friends knowing this murderer is walking freely.

Makes perfect sense.

I think in these cases at some point they have to re-introduce him to society if that is a future step. So ya, the simple act of going for a slurpee is a small small step on a long road. It is important, I'll trust the experts.

AnonymousStranger · 10-01-2019, 05:20 PM

What's to stop someone with a strong will and intent to murder someone from studying up on the symptoms of schizophrenia and tricking the doctors into letting them out into society, 5 years after murdering someone? I completely understand that people may have mental illness, but once that illness causes them to take the lives of other people, the mental illness should have no bearing on their incarceration and they should not be let back into society. I feel like the government is committing a grave error on this one.

Resolute 14 · 10-01-2019, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

This is brutal, just another piece of evidence that our country is descending into a backwards world of moral decay and corruption.

The past was so much better.

GGG · 10-01-2019, 05:22 PM

This seems like a reasonable step when you read the Edmonton Journal article instead of the Sun

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...berta-hospital

The main issue with these cases is they eventually allow them to have unmonitored medication consumption and the right to choose to cease taking meds.

It sounds like as long as he is on his meds he isn’t a threat.

Resolute 14 · 10-01-2019, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousStranger

What's to stop someone with a strong will and intent to murder someone from studying up on the symptoms of schizophrenia and tricking the doctors into letting them out into society, 5 years after murdering someone? I completely understand that people may have mental illness, but once that illness causes them to take the lives of other people, the mental illness should have no bearing on their incarceration and they should not be let back into society. I feel like the government is committing a grave error on this one.

The fact that doctors generally aren't that stupid.

Frank MetaMusil · 10-01-2019, 05:24 PM

I have a hard time with this. Even when he's ready to be reintegrated into society, people will be scared ####less of the guy.

AnonymousStranger · 10-01-2019, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The fact that doctors generally aren't that stupid.

They may be smart, but they are not infallible.

Resolute 14 · 10-01-2019, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousStranger

They may be smart, but they are not infallible.

No, but what you are talking about is someone who has to maintain a charade for a great many years without ever breaking character. It's not just kill someone today, play act at being schizophrenic when Dr. Nick Riviera shows up in your jail sell then relax for five years before returning to life. They'd be looking into your past, your present. They'd be assessing you for a lengthy period of time. And you can't slip up. At all.

It works for Edward Norton in The Score. But I'm not really going to concern myself with this as being a plausible fear in real life.

GreenLantern2814 · 10-01-2019, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousStranger

What's to stop someone with a strong will and intent to murder someone from studying up on the symptoms of schizophrenia and tricking the doctors into letting them out into society, 5 years after murdering someone? I completely understand that people may have mental illness, but once that illness causes them to take the lives of other people, the mental illness should have no bearing on their incarceration and they should not be let back into society. I feel like the government is committing a grave error on this one.

Aside from that in itself being crazy? I would assume things like internet search histories and library records would indicate a person had been planning something like this - Douglas Garland had books and searches full of stuff like 'how to kill without emotion'.

On the other hand, you have stumbled upon a reasonably good screenplay premise.

jayswin · 10-01-2019, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I have a hard time with this. Even when he's ready to be reintegrated into society, people will be scared ####less of the guy.

Which shouldn't and won't factor in one iota.

jayswin · 10-01-2019, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousStranger

What's to stop someone with a strong will and intent to murder someone from studying up on the symptoms of schizophrenia and tricking the doctors into letting them out into society, 5 years after murdering someone? I completely understand that people may have mental illness, but once that illness causes them to take the lives of other people, the mental illness should have no bearing on their incarceration and they should not be let back into society. I feel like the government is committing a grave error on this one.

This is simply not a reasonable fear. As Resolute states, you'd have to keep up the charade almost 24-7 way before and after you murder someone.

And you better believe it won't be "one stupid doctor" you luckily get assigned to you. You'd be up against forensic psychiatrists many times while being investigated, plus entire teams of doctors and specialists during your incarceration in hospital, and then a bunch more upon your decades long transition back into society.

Politely put, there are lots of legitimate concerns with integrating paranoid schizophrenics back into society, but this concern is simply absurd.

DownInFlames · 10-01-2019, 06:48 PM

The thread about this on /r/calgary is absolutely bonkers. They refuse to accept anything except that he needs to be locked up for life. They think they know better than the doctors who've worked with him for years. They bloviate about how the justice system is broken, but when called on to do something to change it they respond, "Why should I?"

I can accept that this is a horrible tragedy and it sucks that there is no justice for the victims, but the lack of reasoned arguments is appalling.

Frank MetaMusil · 10-01-2019, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayswin

Which shouldn't and won't factor in one iota.

Trust the experts of course, but look at people's reaction to this. It shouldn't factor in, but it will.

Human instinct will be tough for people to suppress, this man killed 5 people.

Tough one. Logic and emotion won't coexist with this case.