2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I just can’t picture Columbus trading their #1 center and not getting at least a top 6 center back.

their management literally did that four years ago with Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones

[SuperMatt18]

I agree with Textcritic.

People undervalue our own players while overvaluing Dubois at the same time.

Dubois hasn’t proven himself to be an elite two way Center that people seem to value him as. His offensive play is good but his defensive play is still a work in progress.

Sure he could he reach that level, but at the same age he isn’t actually that much different as a player as Monahan was at 22. We all thought Monahan would take those steps to become a better 200ft Center too.

If the Flames want Dubois then Monahan does make the most sense as the starting point on a deal for sure, and there does need to be a small sweetener added due to age/contract, but Mangiapane or Dube being the “Plus” would be crazy and would make us a worse team.

I’m not even sure that Dubois is a better 200ft player than Mangiapane is right now. Mangiapane had 29 ES points last year, Dubois had 33, both of them had 15 ES goals. The only difference in production was 4 secondary assists, and Mangiapane has the better advanced stats.

In the end people also need to remember that Dubois only has one more year of team control left than Monahan does. Both have 3 years left on their current contracts, Monahan takes him to UFA but Dubois takes him to RFA with arb rights. So he can either just take his qualifying offer, or file for arbitration and be a UFA after that season. So really it’s not like Dubois has an extra 4 years of team control, it’s just an extra season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by fleury

To me there's no chance Columbus takes a package of players unless they rip off the other team. THey've lost star after star and they'd need to replace another potential star with someone of equal value.

I think this is why a deal will most likely not happen until the offseason.

Flames have to give up value and if Montreal is starting with Suzuki, Monahan would be the guy to start off. Valamaki isn't #2 potential, Mangiapane is only second line upside, Bennett is middle of the roster grinder. Little chance that they're looking for depth under the circumstances where another team will deal higher potential.

This is nonsense. Mangiapane is already a top-six forward who looks like he is still getting better, and Valimaki is far too young and has showed too much early promise to be limiting his potential like this.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I agree with Textcritic.

People undervalue our own players while overvaluing Dubois at the same time.

Dubois hasn’t proven himself to be an elite two way Center that people seem to value him as. His offensive play is good but his defensive play is still a work in progress.

Sure he could he reach that level, but at the same age he isn’t actually that much different as a player as Monahan was at 22. We all thought Monahan would take those steps to become a better 200ft Center too.

If the Flames want Dubois than Monahan does make the most sense as the starting point on a deal for sure, and there does need to be a small sweetener added due to age/contract, but Mangiapane or Dube being the “Plus” would be crazy and would make us a worse team.

I’m not even sure that Dubois is a better 200ft player than Mangiapane is right now. Mangiapane had 29 ES points last year, Dubois had 33, both of them had 15 ES goals. The only difference in production was 4 secondary assists, and Mangiapane has the better advanced stats.

In the end people also need to remember that Dubois only has one more year of team control left than Monahan does. Both have 3 years left on their current contracts, Monahan takes him to UFA but Dubois takes him to RFA with arb rights. So he can either just take his qualifying offer, or file for arbitration and be a UFA after that season. So really it’s not like Dubois has an extra 4 years of team control, it’s just an extra season.

If the reported offer/ask from Montreal is centred around KK and Mete or Suzuki, I suspect the add to a Monahan deal would be more than a ‘sweetener’. I think it would be a fairly significant piece, mangiapane or Dube.

I would have a hard time giving up either of those two.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If the reported offer/ask from Montreal is centred around KK and Mete or Suzuki, I suspect the add to a Monahan deal would be more than a ‘sweetener’. I think it would be a fairly significant piece, mangiapane or Dube.

I would have a hard time giving up either of those two.

Feel like you are overvaluing other teams players.

Mete equivalent is pretty much Kylington, don’t think he is carrying a ton of value right now and nothing near the value of Dube or Mangiapane. He’s not an everyday NHLer right now and he needs to be protected in the expansion draft.

I’d say Suzuki has more value than Monahan but KK hasn’t shown much since being drafted and Im not sure Columbus would value him more than Monahan considering they still want to contend right now and KK isn’t a top 6 Center right now.

Suzuki based on how he’s looked would be the best piece Columbus could get but I also don’t see Montreal moving Suzuki for Dubois right now either.

The biggest plus I would give Columbus right now would be a 1st round pick, and I’d want that top 3 protected.

[Vinny01]

I know early on I was all for a Monahan+Mangiapane deal but I don’t want to trade EatBread at all anymore that guy is a legit top 6 forward with more upside than I realized.

Monahan+1st is a deal that makes sense to me.

[Heavy Jack]

Bennett + Hanifin + 21 1st unprotected + 21 2nd for PLD

Gaudreau - PLD - Tkachuk
Monahan - Lindholm - Dube
Mangiapane - Backlund - Leivo
Lucic - Ryan - Simon
Nordstrom

Giordano - Andersson
Valimaki - Tanev
Kylington - Nesterov
Mackey

Markstrom
Rittich

[ForeverFlameFan]

Why would Columbus want Hanifin as the base piece coming back? They have Werenski, Jones, Gavrikov, and Savard in their top 4. That’s good enough to not have to have Hanifin as their base. Unless they’re trading Werenski or Jones for that top pairing C, Hanifin doesn’t make sense at all for them.

It’s Monahan or nothing at all.

[Strange Brew]

If Monahan and Mangiapane could really get you the player that could be the 1C this team so badly needs, I’d have a very hard time saying no to that.

Top 6 wingers are going to be easier to find than that 1C.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If the reported offer/ask from Montreal is centred around KK and Mete or Suzuki, I suspect the add to a Monahan deal would be more than a ‘sweetener’. I think it would be a fairly significant piece, mangiapane or Dube.

I would have a hard time giving up either of those two.

Yea Mete is a throw away asset who has potential but isn’t quite realizing it and is getting passed by others in the system

He is exactly like a Kylington value wise.

I don’t know how he could be in the same category as Suzuki?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Yea Mete is a throw away asset who has potential but isn’t quite realizing it and is getting passed by others in the system

He is exactly like a Kylington value wise.

I don’t know how he could be in the same category as Suzuki?

Right. I’m thinking the appealing aspect for KK or Suzuki is their age and years of team control. Monahan and a 1st might not cut it. 2021 1St round picks are going to be hard to place value to, I would have to think. Is that going to move the needle much?

I think it really depends on what other teams are offering. I’m thinking there will be more than a few teams making their pitch.

[SuperMatt18]

5v5 stats in 2019-2020 season for two players:

Player A:

Goals:15
Primary Assists: 11
Total Assists: 14
Points: 29

Goals per 60: 1.04
Points per 60: 2.02

XGF%: 53.4%

Hockey Viz Offensive Contribution: +7% (Positive is good)
Hockey Viz Defensive Contribution: -7% (Negative is good)

Player B:

Goals:15
Primary Assists: 10
Total Assists: 18
Points: 33

Goals per 60: 0.91
Points per 60: 2.01

XGF%: 54.2%

Hockey Viz Offensive Contribution: +9% (Positive is good)
Hockey Viz Defensive Contribution: +5% (Negative is good)

Player A is Mangiapane, Player B is Dubois.

If Mangiapane is getting moved as part of the deal then he’s the centrepiece. Not moved as a sweetener on top of Monahan.

[crazy_eoj]

If you watched how PLB played in the playoffs last year it’s clear he’s already able to reach a level that Monahan has never quite gotten to. If you want to have a long post season run, the flames really need a player (or two) with that ability. Monny has had excellent regular seasons and is surely a solid player, he’s just not proven to be the game breaker that Dubois can be.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

If you watched how PLB played in the playoffs last year it’s clear he’s already able to reach a level that Monahan has never quite gotten to. If you want to have a long post season run, the flames really need a player (or two) with that ability. Monny has had excellent regular seasons and is surely a solid player, he’s just not proven to be the game breaker that Dubois can be.

Theres literally no other player thats as Game Breaker on the Flames as Monahan. Game Breaker = clutch. Nobody else comes close to him. No. Body.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

If you watched how PLB played in the playoffs last year it’s clear he’s already able to reach a level that Monahan has never quite gotten to. If you want to have a long post season run, the flames really need a player (or two) with that ability. Monny has had excellent regular seasons and is surely a solid player, he’s just not proven to be the game breaker that Dubois can be.

This is a urban legend at this point.

He had one great game against the Leafs, after he was benched the game before, and people act like he won the Conn Smythe.

The other 9 playoff games he had no even strength goals (the common complaint about Monahan) and 5 ES assists.

Not exactly earth shattering

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Theres literally no other player thats as Game Breaker on the Flames as Monahan. Game Breaker = clutch. Nobody else comes close to him. No. Body.

I agree, but PLB is miles ahead of monahan in that category.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This is a urban legend at this point.

He had one great game against the Leafs, after he was benched the game before, and people act like he won the Conn Smythe.

The other 9 playoff games he had no even strength goals (the common complaint about Monahan) and 5 ES assists.

Not exactly earth shattering

I think we can agree that a Monahan and PLD swap is pretty much lateral move at this point, the only thing separating the two is one is younger and can be cost controlled whereas the other is more proven as a 30G scorer. I guess it's pick your poison. I think if we're not swapping Monahan for PLD, then the Blue Jackets could field offers from other teams that are willing to give up a premium for him.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think we can agree that a Monahan and PLD swap is pretty much lateral move at this point, the only thing separating the two is one is younger and can be cost controlled whereas the other is more proven as a 30G scorer. I guess it's pick your poison. I think if we're not swapping Monahan for PLD, then the Blue Jackets could field offers from other teams that are willing to give up a premium for him.

I have no issue swapping Monahan for him.

I have issue with people saying it will take Mangiapane, Dube, or even Hanifin as was suggested earlier in this thread.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I have no issue swapping Monahan for him.

I have issue with people saying it will take Mangiapane, Dube, or even Hanifin as was suggested earlier in this thread.

Agreed. 1 for 1 is good enough for me and anything more than that (like those premiums you've mentioned added on to to Monahan) is a disservice to Monahan himself and what he has done for this organization. However, in this thread I've offered Monahan + conditional 2nd round pick changing to a 1st if we make the playoffs. Could even make the condition harder and say if we make it to the Conference Finals. Otherwise, we lose out on the trade if we are giving up a solid top 6 contributor in Dube and Mangiapane, or trading a solid #3/maybe #2D in his prime for basically nothing back if PLD/Monahan are already a fair enough swap.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by browna

Spezza's agent has said he (Spezza)will retire if claimed.
Maurice has said that Laine "didn't warm up right"? in their practice before the road trip, which sounds ominius.

Dell's agent said the same thing.

(...if it's Edmonton. )