I think Hamonic brings a lot of intangibles that teams covet and has carried his reputation of being a warrior and good team guy with him which I think both are valid. What I didn’t say is that he sucks. He was never worth what Treliving paid for him in a trade and I don’t think he is the difference between making/missing the playoffs or winning a round. He was a nightmare in the playoffs last year and if he was a better player he would already be extended. He doesn’t suck but I think the hype/reputation outweigh the actual results.
At the end of the day this group has not been successful enough to have this org so thin at the prospect base. We have nothing coming up on the farm for Dmen. The Flames have a chance to change their window over the next year. Keeping and losing Brodie/Hamonic in free agency ensures this window is getting closer to closing than opening imo.
All fair points. Especially the bold. It has been disappointing for sure. That said, I think that we would feel differently if two unforeseen incidents didn't happen. If Fox wanted to stay in the org, and if Valiamki was not hurt we be having a very different conversation.
I don't think that the Flames double down, and trade away any high picks in feb, at the same time, I don't think they hedge their bets. I am prepared to be underwhelmed at deadline day in terms of the size of the move the Flames will make. I don't think that a D man, or picks 1/2 are in play. We are more likely to see prospects, or young forwards get packaged with the 3rd or two 4ths. That said, if the return is right Brodie or Hamonic will get moved, but unless it is an obvious over pay, its not worth sacrificing this season.
To a team like NYI or the Jets, I believe you certainly would get a first +. Dude is quality.
The acquiring team has first chance to re-sign him too. That's enough to jump up a draft round
Are you talking about Hamonic? The guy who excels at nothing, even defensive play? I think the rest of the NHL has scouts that have noticed his precipitous drop in play since we acquired him. There is no way anyone is stupid enough to pay a 1st for an ordinary player who excels at nothing and who lives off his reputation for 'intangibles' and little else. I bet he signs a one or two year deal with someone for under 3.5m aav in the summer and then he'll be a PTO guy.
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Does it feel like GG's second year to you? Coming off a pretty decent regular season and a pummeling by the Ducks, and the Flames were in and out of the PO picture and just not getting their act together, and were 18-16-4 on Dec. 29. The only big run was a 7 game streak from Dec. 31-Jan. 14 that put them into the hunt at 25-16-4 as of Jan. 14 (they are 23-17-5 right now). Then they just collapsed.
If it does, what can they do to avoid the same finish? Or should they embrace and enhance the collapse (but this time have a draft pick to show for it)?
I don't see them as a rotten dressing room, or a lazy bunch ... I think effort is there, maybe focus isn't?
Either way you don't reward them by getting rentals, that's for sure.
I think there's a lot of luck/bounces/perfect storm lining up for winning teams. If a move or two now to add futures can add some years to the end of a window that doesn't look so good at the start I would seriously consider doing it.
Then get to the off season and alter the culture with a core trade.
honestly i think what the flames need to do now is move rasmus with hanifin and start grooming them for top pairing duty. Then sign brodie and keep him around as gio's partner since they are proven to be so good together, with the idea of eventually moving them down to the second pair while letting the younger guys take over.
Rest of the year run hamonic and kylington, let hamonic walk in the offseason and roll out valimaki kylington bottom pair next year.
100%
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Does it feel like GG's second year to you? Coming off a pretty decent regular season and a pummeling by the Ducks, and the Flames were in and out of the PO picture and just not getting their act together, and were 18-16-4 on Dec. 29. The only big run was a 7 game streak from Dec. 31-Jan. 14 that put them into the hunt at 25-16-4 as of Jan. 14 (they are 23-17-5 right now). Then they just collapsed.
If it does, what can they do to avoid the same finish? Or should they embrace and enhance the collapse (but this time have a draft pick to show for it)?
The Johnny/Sean core has made the playoffs three times since 2014-15, and this is the first season they've had anything resembling reliable goaltending situation. I know they've not been perfect, but I think they got about as far as you could reasonably expect from tandems of Hiller/Ramo, Elliot/Johnson, and Old Man Mike Smith.
This is a playoff team. I don't think there should be any debate about that. They have two very good lines, they have an excellent blue line featuring the reigning Norris trophy winner, and two good goalies.
This is the exact sort of team that only needs to get into the playoffs, and even with their struggles, I think it's an unsuccessful season if they don't get to at least round two. This is a good group.
They may flounder out, it's probably not their year, but it's not acceptable to entertain selling anything right now. I don't know how much anyone believes in Arizona, but there's a very reasonable chance that we draw the Oilers in the first round. I'm still bitter we didn't get that in 2006.
Are you talking about Hamonic? The guy who excels at nothing, even defensive play? I think the rest of the NHL has scouts that have noticed his precipitous drop in play since we acquired him. There is no way anyone is stupid enough to pay a 1st for an ordinary player who excels at nothing and who lives off his reputation for 'intangibles' and little else. I bet he signs a one or two year deal with someone for under 3.5m aav in the summer and then he'll be a PTO guy.
Negativity festers in you man. Have some faith and we'll make the proverbial beer bet.
If Tre gets a first + something... I'll buy myself an extra beer from you. If the team gets diddly squat, you buy yourself an extra beer from me.
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Negativity festers in you man. Have some faith and we'll make the proverbial beer bet.
If Tre gets a first + something... I'll buy myself an extra beer from you. If the team gets diddly squat, you buy yourself an extra beer from me.
FA top 4 dmen go for a minimum of a 2nd rd pick at the deadline in the majority of cases.
He is valuable and anyone who doesn’t think so is not looking at all the historical evidence to suggest otherwise.
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FA top 4 dmen go for a minimum of a 2nd rd pick at the deadline in the majority of cases.
He is valuable and anyone who doesn’t think so is not looking at all the historical evidence to suggest otherwise.
Is Hamonic a legit top 4 though? Not trying to be snarky or start something. Not sure how the rest of the league views him at this point but I thought we were getting a waaaaay better player than we got. I think he gets by on reputation mostly. He was billed as an elite defensive defenseman but I find his shutdown skills unimpressive, especially against top end talent. I actually think he weighs Hanifin down, would love to see Hanifin-Andersson for an extended stretch.
You are probably right though and he could fetch a 2nd or a 2nd+ from a contender looking for defensive depth. I just dont know if Brad would do that, he might look at hamonic as an 'own rental'. I think we could absorb his loss pretty easily honestly. I have a lot of faith in the rest of the defense.
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I don't see them as a rotten dressing room, or a lazy bunch ... I think effort is there, maybe focus isn't?
Either way you don't reward them by getting rentals, that's for sure.
I think there's a lot of luck/bounces/perfect storm lining up for winning teams. If a move or two now to add futures can add some years to the end of a window that doesn't look so good at the start I would seriously consider doing it.
Then get to the off season and alter the culture with a core trade.
You can't go two full seasons without improving the team IMO unless you're the Canadiens from the seventies.
Which doesn't mean you make a bad trade for the sake of making a deal but you shouldn't need 164 games to see what needs to be done. And change is not unhealthy for any organization.
I don't see them as a rotten dressing room, or a lazy bunch ... I think effort is there, maybe focus isn't?
Either way you don't reward them by getting rentals, that's for sure.
The Frolik trade indicates that Treliving intends to be a buyer at the deadline. We're not selling Hamonic, and if we were it would be sooner rather than later so we can accumulate cap multiplier.
Selling from a playoff team is a recurring fantasy from pessimist fans but not something that GMs and owners who covet the Stanley Cup go for. If you bomb in the playoffs and a guy walks, well at least you went down swinging and you get cap space as an asset anyways.
The Frolik trade indicates that Treliving intends to be a buyer at the deadline. We're not selling Hamonic, and if we were it would be sooner rather than later so we can accumulate cap multiplier.
Selling from a playoff team is a recurring fantasy from pessimist fans but not something that GMs and owners who covet the Stanley Cup go for. If you bomb in the playoffs and a guy walks, well at least you went down swinging and you get cap space as an asset anyways.
I could see Hamonic getting moved as part of a bigger deal.
Ie Hamonic for picks. (To contender)
Picks plus a roster player for top 6 RW (to seller)
Maybe you take back a #7 D on an expiring contract for depth/cap balance in the first trade.
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You can't go two full seasons without improving the team IMO unless you're the Canadiens from the seventies.
Which doesn't mean you make a bad trade for the sake of making a deal but you shouldn't need 164 games to see what needs to be done. And change is not unhealthy for any organization.
That's not what I read from Bingos post at all...back in the day Tre was often quoted as "sell at the deadline" when it's a sellers market and "buy" at the draft when it's a buyers market. That maximizes assets and follows the long game approach of a team like Washington...
That's not what I read from Bingos post at all...back in the day Tre was often quoted as "sell at the deadline" when it's a sellers market and "buy" at the draft when it's a buyers market. That maximizes assets and follows the long game approach of a team like Washington...
Did Washington go two full seasons without making any changes of consequence? Maybe they did, but I just don’t think Treliving can sit on his hands for that long a time. The fact that he has tried leads me to believe he still wants to add players to this team.
Translation of Phat Ras' interaction with Zuccarello
Discussion
By u/needyspace from r/translator
I'm fluent in Norwegian and Swedish. Note that Zucc is actually replying in Swedish here. Not Norwegian (he says "göra", not "gjøre"). But I think he codeswitches to sling some insults, although it was hard to hear. Speaking of codeswitching, Andersson also does it, where he uses the english "hey", instead of a Swedish "hej" (which is not used in this context). Maybe somebody says something before this, the guy underneath Andersson is also a Swede, but in any case, from 0:17 in:
Hey, Hey. Haru huvudet högt?. Du. Huvudet högt. Tror det var en smäll innan däru stanna för lågt. Boom! [...unintelligible...]
-Vad har det med saket(sic!) att göra? [...unintelligible...] Vad har det med saken att göra, din fete ræv?
That's what I could hear. I'd translate that to
Hey, Hey. Are you keeping your head high? Hey you, [keep your] head high. There was a hit earlier where you stayed too low. Boom! [...unintelligible...]
-What does that have to do with anything? [...unintelligible...] What does that have to do with anything, you fat ass?
