2017 NFL season thread

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

A lot of mocks have them taking Allen or Mayfield at 6

I think that might signal they don't, or they might have wanted more of a qb mentor. Unless a new OC is lined up to do that

I’m pretty positive they’re picking 5th and they have already confirmed VJ is coming back. Looks like Musgrave is to stay on as OC, should bode well for a young QB as Carr regressed once he left. I wouldn’t be surprised at anything elway does but Mayfield or allen at 5 would be a stretch. More likely a bookend actual LT at 5 and trade back into the first for a QB if there’s someone they love. Knowing elway and how he loves FA they’ll go after a middling starter though.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Big changes in Packerland.

Pretty exciting. Packers have needed to move on from Capers and Thompson for years now and while I'm still a little surprised they actually pulled the trigger, it is needed. Pretty clear they weren't going to be able to finish the deal with Thompson as the GM.

Edit: McCarthy appears to be back irregardless of what happens at GM. Interesting though that by only giving him a 1 year deal appears his leash is shortening too, which personally I think is unfair.

https://twitter.com/TomSilverstein/s...62917128015873

Tom Silverstein
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The #Packers' new GM will not have to make the decision whether to extend coach Mike McCarthy because it was done during the season, meaning McCarthy is under contract through 2019.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by cross16

Pretty exciting. Packers have needed to move on from Capers and Thompson for years now and while I'm still a little surprised they actually pulled the trigger, it is needed. Pretty clear they weren't going to be able to finish the deal with Thompson as the GM.

Edit: McCarthy appears to be back irregardless of what happens at GM. Interesting though that by only giving him a 1 year deal appears his leash is shortening too, which personally I think is unfair.

https://twitter.com/TomSilverstein/s...62917128015873

Tom Silverstein
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@TomSilverstein
3m3 minutes ago
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The #Packers' new GM will not have to make the decision whether to extend coach Mike McCarthy because it was done during the season, meaning McCarthy is under contract through 2019.

Is McCarthy that good of a head coach? I get that he has a terrific record but he's also had Aaron Rodgers. This isn't like BB or Andy Reid where they've proven they can win when their starters go down or with middling veterans like Alex Smith and Mike Vick. Anytime Rodgers has gone down, the Pack have been easy pickings for other teams.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Is McCarthy that good of a head coach? I get that he has a terrific record but he's also had Aaron Rodgers. This isn't like BB or Andy Reid where they've proven they can win when their starters go down or with middling veterans like Alex Smith and Mike Vick. Anytime Rodgers has gone down, the Pack have been easy pickings for other teams.

I think he's a good head coach and when you look at how many coaches get sacked on an annual basis you have to be a little careful in regards from moving from a successful head coach. You don't make the playoffs in the NFL eight straight seasons by accident even with great QB play. He may not be at the level of a Belichick but I would put him up there with Tomlin, Peyton, Carroll, Reid.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Is McCarthy that good of a head coach? I get that he has a terrific record but he's also had Aaron Rodgers. This isn't like BB or Andy Reid where they've proven they can win when their starters go down or with middling veterans like Alex Smith and Mike Vick. Anytime Rodgers has gone down, the Pack have been easy pickings for other teams.

I think he is good yes. Great? probably not and certainly not BB good but I also think that is an outlier as I consider him one of the best of all time in any sport. Most coaches don't win without their franchise QB and I also don't think any coach has been hampered by their GM as much as McCarthy. Thompson's refusal to do whatever is takes to improve his team and his complete avoidance of free agency I think has made McCarthy's job tougher.

I think the bottom line for me on McCarthy is you may be able to find someone better but it's probably just as easy to find someone worse. Don't think an upgrade is as easy as some of Packer fans do.

[Nadal Fan]

Bengals re-sign Marvin Lewis to a 2 year deal....

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

Bengals re-sign Marvin Lewis to a 2 year deal....

Christmas came REALLY early this year

[Simanium]

Originally Posted by cross16

I think he is good yes. Great? probably not and certainly not BB good but I also think that is an outlier as I consider him one of the best of all time in any sport. Most coaches don't win without their franchise QB and I also don't think any coach has been hampered by their GM as much as McCarthy. Thompson's refusal to do whatever is takes to improve his team and his complete avoidance of free agency I think has made McCarthy's job tougher.

I think the bottom line for me on McCarthy is you may be able to find someone better but it's probably just as easy to find someone worse. Don't think an upgrade is as easy as some of Packer fans do.

McCarthy to me is someone that got promoted one level too high. He should be an offensive coordinator. In terms of in game decisions (i.e. when to go for it on 4th down, when to challenge a play, clock and timeout management) he has been terrible for years. He has terrible situational awareness.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Simanium

McCarthy to me is someone that got promoted one level too high. He should be an offensive coordinator. In terms of in game decisions (i.e. when to go for it on 4th down, when to challenge a play, clock and timeout management) he has been terrible for years. He has terrible situational awareness.

No idea how to answer this because it is patently false. In fact he is tremendous in this aspect of the game.

If he has a fault, and he does (and it's a big one), he is way to loyal to many.

He should have parted ways with Capers 2 or 3 years ago. One thing McCarthy, more than most HC's do, is he hires guys and then trusts them do their jobs. He waits to long when they are failing however. The perfect example was the onside kick failure against Seattle a couple years back. The ST coach should never have still been on his staff that season after a miserable previous campaign.

He is a brilliant offensive guy and thats where he excels. Sure he has Aaron Rodgers but the one time he gave up play calling to his OC (former CFLer Tom Clements) the team went South in a hurry on offense and midway through the season MM took back play calling duties from him.

Someone has yet to explain to me how MM isn't among the leagues elite coaches when he made the playoffs for 8 straight years while amassing a record of 87-40-1. Only one other guy betters that mark and oh yeah, he also has one of the best QB's of all-time in Brady....but no one ever brings that up when talking about Belichick. Granted MM should probably have another SB under his belt, but in football playoffs anything can, and does, happen in one game eliminations.

Who would possibly have done better?

Is McCarthy that good of a head coach? I get that he has a terrific record but he's also had Aaron Rodgers. This isn't like BB or Andy Reid where they've proven they can win when their starters go down or with middling veterans like Alex Smith and Mike Vick. Anytime Rodgers has gone down, the Pack have been easy pickings for other teams.

Well there was that one time he lost Rodgers for 8 games and still won the division (albeit a very weak one) using Matt Flynn, Seneca Wallace and Scott Tolzein to try and do so.

MM is a great coach.

As an aside I read today that Rodgers is now dating Danica Patrick.

[Senator Clay Davis]

First of all McCarthy may not be Andy Reid, but his in-game management when it comes to managing the clock, challenges, timeouts etc.. is generally regarded as poor. But being fair it's shocking how bad most coaches are at this aspect of the game, and with how much teams spend it's surprising they don't have a dedicated person towards this. And that season without Rodgers was seven full games and almost all of another, and they went 2-5-1 in those games, and if not for the Matt Flynn miracle in Dallas it would have been one win.

To me McCarthy is an average coach, maybe slightly better but not much. Rodgers, Peyton Manning, these are rare guys that literally can single handily win a team a ton of games, regardless of coach. What happened the first season Peyton missed in Indy? They got Andrew Luck because they were 2-14 and barely missed 0-16 with an 0-13 start. If the Packers played an entire year without Rodgers I doubt they win more than four games.

My point all along about McCarthy is he's gotten stale, a fresh voice, ideally one more focused on defense, could not do any worse at all, assuming Rodgers stays healthy. What's the harm in trying something new, unless you're the Bengals? And remember, with Rodgers the Packers can choose whoever they want, because you have what any coach wants, the best QB in the league. I honestly thought he should have been done after the Seattle debacle, that was poor coaching costing them possibly the Super Bowl.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

Bengals re-sign Marvin Lewis to a 2 year deal....

I am no devout Bengals follower but to me this debunks the notion that continuity breeds success. Seems to me the Patriots cycled through coaches and regimes until they landed on BB.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

Bengals re-sign Marvin Lewis to a 2 year deal....

Talk about two parties that just can't get enough of a bad relationship. The guy himself has been waffling about coming back, the owner who waffled about bringing him back has been thrifty rarely willing to pay to retain top players hitting free agency, keeps the staff on short term deals so they are always in lame duck situations. Seems like nobody is ever happy there (some of Lewis's assistants are bolting) so why not do it again for another two years?

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Generally if a team spikes from one year to the next they are in tough to maintain their win total from the spike season let alone improve it. A " Spike" season is defined as a team winning 4 or more games above the previous seasons win total. The "Spike" teams this year were

NFC
Philadelphia
Minnesota
New Orleans
Carolina
Los Angeles Rams
San Francisco

So as you can see the NFC had a lot of these "Spike" teams. 5 of the teams in the playoffs are spike teams. So it's still going to be a pretty good feat for San Francisco to win 8 games next year. Titan fans should really be quite pleased that their team did win 9 games and make the playoffs this year because they bucked the Spike trend. Other Spike teams from last year like Miami, Oakland, Dallas, New York Giants, all regressed this season. So of 5 teams...only one matched the previous win total and none improved.

Good write-up Syl. I think the reason I'm more optimistic about the Saints chances of maintaining this into next year and beyond is because arguably the biggest reason for their spike was the injection of their 2017 rookie class. They absolutely hit a home run this year, Jeff Ireland is a stud head scout. They may end up with the offensive and defensive ROTY in the same year, which hasn't happened since the 60s.

1st round: CB Marshon Lattimore - completely transformed the D with his shutdown game and swagger, which has clearly rubbed off. Possible favourite for DROTY.
1st(2): OT Ryan Ramczyk - Reuben Foster would've looked great in black & gold, but Ramczyk has been a stud at RT, played every snap this year. Huge reason the run game has been so good.
2nd: S Marcus Williams - Day 1 starter, has had a solid rookie year and solidified a former weak spot. Should be the starter for years to come.
3rd: RB Alvin Kamara - Saints O basically runs through him now. Highlight machine, possible favourite for OROTY.
3rd(2): OLB Alex Anzalone - ended up on IR early in the year, but was a day 1 starter and looked great until the injury. Very pleasant surprise.

It reminds me of their 2006 draft class, which included Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Jahri Evans, Roman Harper, Rob Ninkovich, and Zach Strief, which laid the foundation for the eventual Super Bowl winning roster 3 years later (though UFA signing Brees that same year was obviously the biggest reason why). Add in DT Sheldon Rankins and WR Michael Thomas from last year's draft, and this team is very young and very talented (well young save for the QB)

The craziest part is the Saints have done this while leading the entire league in most players on IR, with 18. Seven of their 11 opening day starters on D are on IR, that's insane for an 11 win division champ. Okafor opposite Cam Jordan at DE was having a fantastic year until he went down on IR, I'd love to see the Saints line next year with him and Nick Fairley back.

[transplant99]

Are the Browns finally starting to put the right people in place?

Alonzo Highsmith climbed the ranks of the Green Bay Packers personnel department in his 19 years with the team, but the senior personnel executive won't be in the mix for the team's vacant general manager job.

He told ESPN.com on Tuesday night that he will join the Cleveland Browns as vice president of football operations. The move reunites Highsmith with new Browns GM John Dorsey, the former Packers director of college scouting.

Highsmith is who i would have guessed to be the likely guy to take over the Packers GM role.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

The craziest part is the Saints have done this while leading the entire league in most players on IR, with 18. Seven of their 11 opening day starters on D are on IR, that's insane for an 11 win division champ. Okafor opposite Cam Jordan at DE was having a fantastic year until he went down on IR, I'd love to see the Saints line next year with him and Nick Fairley back.

Didn't the Saints hit a bit of cap hell coupled with the bounty gate punishments that really slowed them down for a few years. Prior to that Loomis had built a really talaneted team around Brees.

From what I remember off the top of my head about last year's Saints is that they lost quite a few close games. The Raiders 2 point conversion as an example. Even than they still won 7 games. I think they had 3 straight 7-9 seasons so it's not like they are two years away from winning 2 games.

They added some key pieces on D as well as beefed up their run game to keep the unit off the field. As you say their draft class from 2017 shows huge potential.

I'll be interested to see how they do this weekend. They beat the Panthers both times but it's hard to beat the same team 3 times in the same season. Carolina also seems to bounce back after they play badly, so will they do that here? Of all the teams on the NFC side that are in the playoffs, Brees is the QB I would trust the most by far.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by cross16

I think he is good yes. Great? probably not and certainly not BB good but I also think that is an outlier as I consider him one of the best of all time in any sport. Most coaches don't win without their franchise QB and I also don't think any coach has been hampered by their GM as much as McCarthy. Thompson's refusal to do whatever is takes to improve his team and his complete avoidance of free agency I think has made McCarthy's job tougher.

I think the bottom line for me on McCarthy is you may be able to find someone better but it's probably just as easy to find someone worse. Don't think an upgrade is as easy as some of Packer fans do.

i have always wondered that as well. you have Aaron Rodgers, you need to go all in every year you have him and TT let the team especially that porous D falter when he could have improved it. he should have been gone years ago. Rodgers will likely finish with 1 ring and that is not enough for his talent level.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

i have always wondered that as well. you have Aaron Rodgers, you need to go all in every year you have him and TT let the team especially that porous D falter when he could have improved it. he should have been gone years ago. Rodgers will likely finish with 1 ring and that is not enough for his talent level.

Well they have completely cleaned house now...

After deciding to fire defensive coordinator Dom Capers, inside linebackers coach Scott McCurley and defensive line coach Mike Trgovac, the Packers also have chosen to move on from offensive coordinator Edgar Bennett and quarterbacks coach Alex Van Pelt, sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen and Rob Demovsky.

SO thats the GM, both coordinators and at least 5 position coaches.

Mark Murphy obviously had a long talk with Mike McCarthy.

Going to be interesting to see if MM goes back to the future with guys like Mcadoo and Philbin available, or if he is able to go in an entirely new/different direction.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Didn't the Saints hit a bit of cap hell coupled with the bounty gate punishments that really slowed them down for a few years. Prior to that Loomis had built a really talaneted team around Brees.

From what I remember off the top of my head about last year's Saints is that they lost quite a few close games. The Raiders 2 point conversion as an example. Even than they still won 7 games. I think they had 3 straight 7-9 seasons so it's not like they are two years away from winning 2 games.

They added some key pieces on D as well as beefed up their run game to keep the unit off the field. As you say their draft class from 2017 shows huge potential.

I'll be interested to see how they do this weekend. They beat the Panthers both times but it's hard to beat the same team 3 times in the same season. Carolina also seems to bounce back after they play badly, so will they do that here? Of all the teams on the NFC side that are in the playoffs, Brees is the QB I would trust the most by far.

Yep good points, they were beginning to trend in the right direction last year as well, in spurts, as young teams do. And yeah they were in serious cap hell, with a tonne of dead money - leading the league by a mile in that regard - from throwing big money at UFAs who didn't work out, like Jairus Byrd, Brandon Browner, C.J. Spiller...and then having to eat a lot of salary releasing or trading players shortly after signing them to big deals, like Jimmy Graham, Keenan Lewis and Junior Galette. They're still dealing with that a bit but the worst is over in that regard. The locker room culture was supposedly a mess then too, which resulted in jettisoning of talent in 2014-15 and Payton & Loomis attempting to undertake a quick rebuild around Brees before his time was up.

They also had some terrible drafts, not a single player remains on the roster from the 2012 or 2014 drafts, that's atrocious. But its gotten miles better after hiring Jeff Ireland as AGM and scouting director, dude is a wizard. The 2015-17 drafts have been solid, and things finally appear to be back on track...thank jebus, all Saints fans felt terrible for Brees who's good enough to be going on annual playoff runs if not for a high school calibre D slowing him down the past 3 years, and a leaky OL. Think many of us were ready to see him walk out of sympathy, just so he could spend his twilight with a winner to end his career...we got good again just in time.

Curious what your thoughts are for OROTY? Hunt or Kamara (or other). What a year for rookies man.

EDIT: Yeah should be interesting this weekend, divisional games are always tight. I like our odds at home, as long as there's no stupid fumbles. Josh Hill, Brandon Coleman, Tommy-Lee Lewis, I'm looking at YOU! New wrinkle to be added on either side, as Greg Olsen missed both Saints games but he'll be ready to go this weekend; obviously a big add for Carolina there. Conversely, Marshon Lattimore missed both Panthers games, and will get his first taste of Cam Newton in his career. I'm just so happy it's back, been 4 years, and 6 since a playoff game at the Superdome. WHO DAT!

[cross16]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

i have always wondered that as well. you have Aaron Rodgers, you need to go all in every year you have him and TT let the team especially that porous D falter when he could have improved it. he should have been gone years ago. Rodgers will likely finish with 1 ring and that is not enough for his talent level.

What is even more frustrating is that every year they go into the season with cap room. Rodgers deal has been a relative bargain for a few seasons now and Thompson refused to take advantage of it. I would be more understanding if they had a lot of good players making top dollar but they really don't. It's a fairly talent deficient roster, in the grand scheme of things, behind Rodgers with no action taken to rectify it. Very, very frustrating as a Packer fan to see Thompson operate for as long as he did.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well they have completely cleaned house now...



SO thats the GM, both coordinators and at least 5 position coaches.

Mark Murphy obviously had a long talk with Mike McCarthy.

Going to be interesting to see if MM goes back to the future with guys like Mcadoo and Philbin available, or if he is able to go in an entirely new/different direction.

Hard to disagree with any of the firings though. Trgovac as the D line coach is a little surprising but I do think its likely he and Capers were a package deal as i always read he left Carolina to come coach with Capers. I guess to be fair 1 of the assistants is out to take another job at the College level and the QB coach, Van Pelt, apparently has asked to leave. Wants to be an OC. So some normal turnover in there.

I'm find with bringing back someone like McAdoo as the QB coach but I do hope they find some young blood and some fresh ideas. I think the coaching staff has gotten a little stale with generally keeping the same people at the top for the last few years.

[Simanium]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No idea how to answer this because it is patently false. In fact he is tremendous in this aspect of the game.

It is well known for years that McCarthy has been poorly regarded in terms of game day decisions. This article for sets out a lot of examples of his ineptitude: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/af...hawks-packers/

Another great example is was his decision to try a 58 yard field goal against the Steelers this year. They had the lead and momentum and he tries a field goal in cold weather longer than any field goal ever made at Heinz Field (one of the worst stadiums for kickers). That really turned the game around in what was a game the Packers played good enough to win.