Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[socalwingfan]

I keep seeing that Gaudreau reached out to Lucic, but can't find that in any of the articles printed - was this discussed on the radio or TV?

[TheScorpion]

I wonder if Neal gets booed when he comes back. I mean, he's an Oiler, so he'll get booed anyway, but even moreso?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Shazam

You’re overreacting.

Like I said, he was on a terrible team. He was one of their better players. He got a lot of ice time. The Oilers’ third and fourth lines are atrocious.

Consider that he is going to be bottom six here barring injuries. He will get nary a sniff of top two ice time.

Nope you were being pissy.

And I don't think you understand the stats at all. He played a lot with their bottom six players who were junk and still had some of the best driving numbers on the team. Look that shocks me too, but to do well despite playing on a terrible team and predominantly playing with replacement level players is crazy.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Shazam

RNH is the Oilers second best player.

The Oilers do have a coach that plays for Corsi. If you accept that Corsi is related to points then Lucic is still going to be oh so bad.

What a high bar we’re setting here BTW - he’s better than Hathaway? Phew.

As I said ... I looked into that.

His numbers aren't low event corsi shot attempts. Positive splits in every play driving measure you can look up. Scoring chances, high danger chances, expected goal splits.

So their coach didn't effect this at all.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I wonder if Neal gets booed when he comes back. I mean, he's an Oiler, so he'll get booed anyway, but even moreso?

Oh, he’s getting booed. I might fly in for games just to boo him.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I wonder if Neal gets booed when he comes back. I mean, he's an Oiler, so he'll get booed anyway, but even moreso?

He can and should be booed mercilessly.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

That was Jagr’s stall too. Location of locker stall is meaningless to me.

Sometimes writers use metaphors to explain a situation.

Sports writers use them a lot to paint a picture that doesn't need quotes or information they've gathered through other methods and sources to get that point or perspective across to the reader.

Duha isn't a smoke blower, if he's telling us Neal didn't fit in, it's because Neal absolutely did not fit in.

[zamler]

I would boo Crosby if he was an Oiler.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Again it’s not about being right or wrong, it’s about those “usual suspects” on this forum who (for the better part of 12 months) have made up absolute nonsense, passed it off as fact and now start pissing and moaning when they get called out on it when it’s proven to be nonsense.

But if deliberately missing the point makes you feel better, then you do you.

These people didn't make stuff up. They chose to believe what was reported on. Didn't fit in Calgary, maybe didn't fit anywhere prior, I honestly don't know. But it wouldn't take a lot of googling to find comments about Neal and leadership and having won, and veteran presence and tough to play against.

You didn't buy it. That's great.

But it's not hard to find good guy Neal quotes from previous teams. Friedman was all over the people love this guy stuff when Calgary added him.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

It's been too long since the Flames had a useful #17. Who was the last one, Bourque?

The 2014-15 edition of Lance Bouma. We don't make the playoffs without his midas touch and fearless shotblocking.

[Buff]

I think Lucic can bring value to the Flames. He is a physical presence and intimidating to play against. He can get teams to be less effective with his physical play.

The Flames need that.

He won't score 20 goals or 40 points. He may struggle to even get 10 goals.

He is defensively responsible but he is slow and that can be a detriment to him and his team.

I think he'll bring more positives than negatives to this team though. My problem with Lucic is his contract. It takes up too much cap space and probably hampers their ability to protect the appropriate players at the expansion draft. That is why I don't like acquiring Lucic. His contract.

I'm glad to be rid of Neal. I kept holding out hope that he would turn things around and pick it up in the playoffs. I was hopeful that he would have a better year this year but I wasn't confident he would. He scores goals and plays with an edge. He didn't do either for the Flames and by the sounds of it he probably wasn't going to this year either.

I don't like it but I have more confidence in Lucic being a better fit for the Flames than Neal was or would have been.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I'd be floored if Lucic scores 11 goals, so that's one area where I very much doubt he replaces what Hathaway gave us.

Hathaway will never hit double digits again either. He's Bouma lite, tripling his shooting percentage last year.

[tvp2003]

I like the Lucic for Hathaway, Dube for Neal perspective. The reality is that Neal is not a top 9 player on this team, and will neuter any sort of energy/checking fourth line, so unless you’re going to permanently put him in the press box, there is simply no room for him. At least Lucic can be a “fourth line” plugger; if the rumoured line of Lucic-Ryan-Bennett happens, that really puts him in a position to succeed. Meanwhile, you give Dube some more offensive starts/minutes, instead of having to waste those on Neal.

Originally Posted by bax

You know what would be awesome?

Let’s rally around Lucic. Let’s show the hockey world that we respect a player that wants to be here and comes in to work hard, do his job, and protect his teammates.

Let’s get a Lucic chant going first game of the season and embrace him and his role on the team. Yes, the contract sucks but forget about that and take him for what he is at face value. He will fit in well on the 4th line and provide more than Neal was ever going to despite what he does in Edmonton.

We rescued him from Edmonton so let’s let him return the favor by hitting, fighting, and chipping in the odd goal. Yes, he’s a mean goon, but let’s embrace him as our mean goon.

Yes, that would be awesome! After getting roasted for the past two years in Mulletville, I bet he could use some support from the home side. No expectations of filling the net with McDavid — just play hard and honest hockey and he’ll get the C of Red cheering for Looch in no time.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by zuluking

If I can halfheartedly cheer for Todd Bertuzzi, I can find it in myself to do so for Milan Lucic. “Yay...”

[Skyceman]

[TheScorpion]

My favourite part about Lucic is that he isn't backing down physically as he ages.

He tied a career-high with 259 hits last season.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Bingo

These people didn't make stuff up. They chose to believe what was reported on. Didn't fit in Calgary, maybe didn't fit anywhere prior, I honestly don't know. But it wouldn't take a lot of googling to find comments about Neal and leadership and having won, and veteran presence and tough to play against.

You didn't buy it. That's great.

But it's not hard to find good guy Neal quotes from previous teams. Friedman was all over the people love this guy stuff when Calgary added him.

Its not hard to find quotes that the earth is flat, what’s your point?

This whole ordeal is a cautionary tale in confirmation bias...a lesson that could/should have been learned after the exact same thing happened with Brouwer (even down to the leadership argument).

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's pretty much me.

So having let this digest for 20 hours I'm at this point.

1. I never wanted Lucic on the Flames, yuck
2. I have to keep reminding myself that Neal has left as well, which removes some of the yuck
3. Lucic has the worse contract so you knew Edmonton had to kick something in
4. What Edmonton kicked in doesn't balance this for me so I don't get it
5. I wonder still if the Flames insisted Lucic waive his NMC, but havne't heard so and I'm nervous
6. They do have time to sort that out though including a buy out in two years
7. Lucic is a better fit of two players that don't fit because of physical play and not needing to play top six minutes to contribute
8. Guys like Gaudreau calling Lucic tells me the Flames top to bottom really wanted Neal gone
9. Which certainly pushes me to think it's more than the coach that had a problem with the guy

Where did you read that Gaudreau called Lucic?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Its not hard to find quotes that the earth is flat, what’s your point?

This whole ordeal is a cautionary tale in confirmation bias...a lesson that could/should have been learned after the exact same thing happened with Brouwer (even down to the leadership argument).

Thought my point was rather obvious.

You are suggesting people made stuff up. I'm saying there were reported quotes that were readily available.

What you can claim, is that you're smarter than others for knowing what to believe and what not to, that is if your need to be better than everyone else persists.

But I don't think you can accuse of others of fabricating facts when they were reported.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Where did you read that Gaudreau called Lucic?

He has a tap on Johnny's phone line.