63 Canadians killed after civilian airliner shot down.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

How can you even remotely compare that to Humboldt. Once involves an international incident mired in politics, the other doesn't. One occurred far outside of the country which has large expense, one did not. One has no direct recourse for families, one does.

Another great whataboutism.

[Resolute 14]

Honestly Girly, if you're just going to troll like that, at least be creative.

[Fuzz]

Iran has requested equipment it says it needs from U.S. and French authorities to download information from black boxes on a downed Ukrainian passenger plane, but Tehran had not yet received a positive response, the Iranian civil aviation body said.

Tehran has given mixed signals about whether they would be handed over. Canada, which had 57 citizens on the flight, has said France would be the best place to send the black boxes because it was one of the few nations with the ability to read them.

Iran's Civil Aviation Organization said in its second report on the disaster that it did not have the equipment needed to download data from the model of recorders installed on the U.S.-built Boeing 737.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/iran-seeks-h...434241?cmp=rss


What a bunch of ####ing clowns. You guys screwed up. Do the right thing and send the black box's to someone competent enough to do what needs to be done. Make it right. Disgusting. Not the time to play international politics on this one.

[Northendzone]

i think the more applicable comparison would be to those that died on 9-11. will be interesting though to see if this compensation sets a new benchmark.

the reality is that some who died may have had insurance availible to them via their employer (could be both life and AD&D), thier credit card (if that is how they booked the flight) and personal policies.

i was thinking that perhaps someone should have looked into the needs first, but that could be a little obtrusive

[CaptainCrunch]

They absolutely do not want to hand over the black box's. It will be the first of many fights.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/iran-seeks-h...434241?cmp=rss


What a bunch of ####ing clowns. You guys screwed up. Do the right thing and send the black box's to someone competent enough to do what needs to be done. Make it right. Disgusting. Not the time to play international politics on this one.

And if they do manage to get the right equipment I would wager there is a good chance the data is 'somehow' damaged, erased, or otherwise rendered unusable. The boxes need to go to another country or alternatively have representatives from another country on hand to assist with the data retrieval. Either way I would not trust Iran with the boxes on their own.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

And if they do manage to get the right equipment I would wager there is a good chance the data is 'somehow' damaged, erased, or otherwise rendered unusable. The boxes need to go to another country or alternatively have representatives from another country on hand to assist with the data retrieval. Either way I would not trust Iran with the boxes on their own.

When this thing first came out the Iranian's basically stated that the boxes were damaged and that the data was damaged.


I get why they would want to not have that data go out if it proves that there were two missile strikes with a long pause between the two strikes.


The Iranian government is going to fight everything tooth and nail.

[afc wimbledon]

There is nothing on the black boxes we don't know, two missiles 30 seconds apart, hell we have video.

If I had to guess the Iranians are more worried about the cockpit voice recorder, that plane was flying for some time after it was hit, my guess is from a PR point of view they would prefer to avoid the pitiful last minutes of pilot recording, it matters not what it is from desperate professionalism of a crew trying to save the passengers to grim screaming and crying, it will all be a disaster for the regime

[blankall]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

There is nothing on the black boxes we don't know, two missiles 30 seconds apart, hell we have video.

If I had to guess the Iranians are more worried about the cockpit voice recorder, that plane was flying for some time after it was hit, my guess is from a PR point of view they would prefer to avoid the pitiful last minutes of pilot recording, it matters not what it is from desperate professionalism of a crew trying to save the passengers to grim screaming and crying, it will all be a disaster for the regime

Oh...alright....I guess we don't need the black boxes then.

It's all relevant evidence. This all part of an extremely sloppy and botched attempt by the Iranian government to suppress the truth. There's still a lot of unanswered questions about what happened that day and who was responsible for what happened.

[Geraldsh]

What will our reaction be if/when they refuse to release the dual-citizen victims?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

What will our reaction be if/when they refuse to release the dual-citizen victims?

A strongly worded letter? Another measly sum of money to the victim's family?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blankall

Oh...alright....I guess we don't need the black boxes then.

It's all relevant evidence. This all part of an extremely sloppy and botched attempt by the Iranian government to suppress the truth. There's still a lot of unanswered questions about what happened that day and who was responsible for what happened.

I didn't say they shouldn't release them, just posited why the Iranians wouldn't want them released, we know exactly what happened to the plane, nothing on the flight recorder would worry Iran from that point of view, at this point everything the regime does is about PR for its people

[blankall]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I didn't say they shouldn't release them, just posited why the Iranians wouldn't want them released, we know exactly what happened to the plane, nothing on the flight recorder would worry Iran from that point of view, at this point everything the regime does is about PR for its people

We actually don't know what happened to the plane. We know it was shot down by Iranian missiles, launched by someone in Iran.

The black box could provide lots of evidence, for example, on the nature of the missiles fired, as the specific technical difficulties of the plane will be related to the weapons fired at the plane.

The Iranian government is now saying a TOR-M1 missile was responsible. We don't know if that's actually true. The types of missiles relate to the actual organization, within Iran, that fired the missiles. The Iranian government could manipulate these facts, either as an excuse to upgrade weaponry or persecute political opponents. As there are active protests in Iran and people being murdered in the streets, it's extremely important to decipher the facts here from government propaganda.

Not to mention the Canadian government has a duty to find out what happened, as it's own citizens have been killed.

Yeah, we kind of need those boxes. Everything the Iranian government is about PR...for itself. It has no interest in what's best for the people involved.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm more concerned about the reasoning for two missiles being fired about 30 seconds apart then anything else. I mean that first missile would have already hit when the second missile fired or close to it. And the Tor isn't a automated defense system like that, a button is still being pushed.


But I expect that a couple of lowely soldiers who were manning the battery are already being pooped out by some desert monster.

[Northendzone]

would the black really indicate what missles hit the plane?

i thought the black box just recorded stuff about teh plane like speed, flap angles etc.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

would the black really indicate what missles hit the plane?

i thought the black box just recorded stuff about teh plane like speed, flap angles etc.

I suppose they would indicate the size of the first missile by dint of which systems shut down where, I doubt much useable data would be recorded for the second strike.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

would the black really indicate what missles hit the plane?

i thought the black box just recorded stuff about teh plane like speed, flap angles etc.

All of the systems sensors from what I understand are tracked as well. So you can probably track the missile strikes from failures.

[Northendzone]

i am thinking that there might be enough data to determine an approximate spot where the first missle would have hit - for example i'd assume if the left wing was hit, then any left wing sensors would drop to 0 and presumably the plane would have a sudden change of pitch which would register.

the next time i am surfing he net i am going to try and find out about the data gleened from black boxes and how it is extracted and analyzed. Maybe I will send the question in to Captain Joe to answer on his youtube channel

[Lubicon]

The other thing the FDR and voice recorders would do is prove what the aircraft was doing prior to the incident. In other words was it flying normally doing civil airliner things, were the crew doing what they were supposed to be doing (communication wise) etc. In other words rule everything else out and that the flight was operating normally right up until the time of the missile strikes. This might seem trivial but it is helpful in the investigation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

The other thing the FDR and voice recorders would do is prove what the aircraft was doing prior to the incident. In other words was it flying normally doing civil airliner things, were the crew doing what they were supposed to be doing (communication wise) etc. In other words rule everything else out and that the flight was operating normally right up until the time of the missile strikes. This might seem trivial but it is helpful in the investigation.

Maybe, but I think the Radar tracks that we've seen and flight path stuff that we've seen show it was pretty much acting like a jet liner and not a cruise missile or fighter bomber.