What ails the Flames?

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

There’s so much junk in here I’m not even going to comment. Not worth it. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on basically everything because we’re so clearly on different tangents.

You don't answer a single thing. I made clear arguments about why the system Gulutzan preaches could lead to low shooting percentage and shots wide. Why you can't say we don't have a one timer as they refuse to even try putting a right handed shot in the same spot Ovechkin always posts up. How our recent draft record clearly indicates the team does not value grinders and had been looking for skill. You ignore all of these points, which I think are fair and not junk.

[blender]

Wow, guys. This is quite the little debate. Get real. It is both skill and systems that need to be improved. There is plenty of skill on the team but not enough, especially in the bottom half. The system has it's upside, but it is lacking in several key areas. No need to make a binary issue out of it; plenty of room for improvement.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

If the flames had one additional 15 goal player in their roster...over say a Matt Stajan hem we would be well in the top 15 in scoring. So you are saying right now we are devoid of skill, but if we could add one Paul Byron we wouldn't be?

The reason we don't have a one timer on the PP is that Gulutzan refuses to play dmen on their off side. The reason we're been shooting wide so much is that Gulutzan's ultra slow controlled possession game allows the other team to get into defensive position, so we can either shoot wide or into shin pads. These are equally plausible explanations yet you ignore them, and all the other dumb stuff Gulutzan does and lay the blame on an imagined love affair with grinders.

I agree the team under Treliving has not tried to pick up grinders. Brouwer wasn't picked up as a grinder - he was chosen as a large forward who can score 15-20. Frolik was acquired for two way play, including decent offence.
Foo, Lazar, Jagr were acquired for scoring (Lazar as a project, obviously)

That said, I suspect that one of Bennett, Brouwer or Jagr was expected to have 15 goals. Matt Stajan in the lineup isn't the reason for a lack of goalscoring. He doesn't displace any of them.

My other quibble is that D men are rarely the one timer threat on the power play. One timers are usually from the forward on that side - Ovie or Laine, for example. Plus, Gio and Hamilton switch on the fly a fair bit once they are in the zone. Lastly, one timers can arguably be even more successful with a on-handed shooter. Playing off-hand puts you more in the middle and maybe gets a better angle, but on-hand gives you a better angle to the short side, which is the idea of a one timer (making the goal have to move to make the save on the far side of where the puck was).

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Simmer down.

My post speaks for itself. I consider flourishing to mean showing material improvement. The guys you mentioned are doing as expected under Gulutzan, and many are flat. Doing well but not better.

Yes, Brodie flourished under Hartley and has regressed under Gulutzan.
Bennett also flourished under Hartley and has regressed under Gulutzan.

Backlund who we are giving credit to broke out and took a meaningful step change under Hartley. You know who else did? Gio.

The deployment has not put them (Bennett and Brodie) in a position to succeed and these guys who were valuable assets and productive players are whipping boys now.

Think about it. Hamilton flat with a Brodie nosedive is a net negative. I don’t know why that is hard for you to understand.

Stajan and Engelland were both doing the jobs asked of them in 2014-15 and were key pieces in the playoff win. I didn’t see any pronounced uptick with Gully.

So yes, I do put overall underachievement on the coach.

There's so much contradiction in your post. Your definition of flourishing is Sam Bennett scoring 36 points? Nevermind the fact that he had 2 - 18 game goalless droughts right? Yet, Gaudreau who is on pace for 90 points and Ferland who's crushing his previous career year and Monahan on pace to do the same and Backlund becoming a Selke Trophy contender or Dougie becoming a #1 defenseman is some how just nothing?

How about the fact that the majority of the players have shown some level of improvement rather than regressing is actually a net positive? Instead, because 2 players who were never actually that good but were being propped up by a couple of excellent players.

You're overthinking everything. This team was neck and neck the whole season with the California teams who have dominated the division seemingly forever. That's the growth of this team. They play competitive games against the best teams in the league. They just need an infusion of speed and skill to turn more of those 1 goal wins/losses into 4-2, 5-2 wins.