Hockey Canada Olympic roster announcement. 10 AM MT

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Because their employer wouldn’t let them go?

I can see sureloss’ point about them not making an issue of it during previous CBA negotiations, but there’s no guarantee the league would have agreed to it anyways without demanding for concessions the players didn’t want to agree to either.

Both sides could have potentially done things differently to ensure participation, but as it stands currently the league are the ones who are not allowing their players to participate, there’s no other way to put it.

No. It was because the NHL made an offer to the NHLPA in the Spring or Summer to send them to the next two Olympics in exchange for extending the current CBA for another 10 years.

I might not have the CBA number right, but I remember thinking at the time that this was all a very fair deal and a solid compromise from both sides.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Because their employer wouldn’t let them go?

I can see sureloss’ point about them not making an issue of it during previous CBA negotiations, but there’s no guarantee the league would have agreed to it anyways without demanding for concessions the players didn’t want to agree to either.

Both sides could have potentially done things differently to ensure participation, but as it stands currently the league are the ones who are not allowing their players to participate, there’s no other way to put it.

2006 and 2010 Olympic participation was explicitly guaranteed in the 2005 CBA.

Don't think it would have been too hard to extend that to further Olympics.

According to Bettman and Burke, the players didn't even bring up the Olympics in the 2013 CBA negotiations.

edit: The players allowed the Olympic participation guarantee to fall out of the CBA without a word.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Because their employer wouldn’t let them go?

I can see sureloss’ point about them not making an issue of it during previous CBA negotiations, but there’s no guarantee the league would have agreed to it anyways without demanding for concessions the players didn’t want to agree to either.

Both sides could have potentially done things differently to ensure participation, but as it stands currently the league are the ones who are not allowing their players to participate, there’s no other way to put it.

They had ample opportunities to secure Olympic participation. They didnt take any of them.

And 'Because their employer wouldn’t let them go?'

Of course!

Their employer (<-Important term) had to pay their travel, accommodation, insurance and lose revenue from their primary business in exchange for......nothing.

Yeah, I think thats an easy deal to pass on.

And then, magnanimously, they still offered terms for the players to participate in exchange for a lengthened CBA, etc, and the players (employees) didnt give so much as an inch.

So yeah, they decided not to risk their business interests and pay for their employees to go to Korea in exchange for nothing.

Seems pretty straightforward. The employees bargained collectively regarding what was important to them and they made it clear that Olympic participation was not included in that conversation.

Its 100% on the players. Nobody gets anything for nothing.

[killer_carlson]

1) not a fan of Lapierre. Was hoping they wouldn't have him on the team.

2) I see character in spades on this team. I love it. A lot of these guys have overcome huge personal injury or issues to resume a pro career and have made a go of it. Awesome.

3) even Rene Bourque can get motivated for 2 weeks. He might have a monster tournament.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

1) not a fan of Lapierre. Was hoping they wouldn't have him on the team.

2) I see character in spades on this team. I love it. A lot of these guys have overcome huge personal injury or issues to resume a pro career and have made a go of it. Awesome.

3) even Rene Bourque can get motivated for 2 weeks. He might have a monster tournament.

And that is a real possibility.

Duha was on 960 about an hour ago and related a story he heard today after the announcement of the team. He said he was having a one on one with Sean Burke and was told that Bourque called Burke last summer and asked him "what do I need to do to make this team Obviously he took Burkes instructions to heart and parlayed that into being an Olympian...something Burke doesnt take lightly as a former Olympian himself.

Could be a really good tourney for Rene.

I know I'm cheering for him and all the rest of the Canadian athletes....in every single sport.

[Tinordi]

I think the quality of the hockey in this tournament is going to be quite high. Most of these guys are going to see this as a last chance audition for their last cup of NHL coffee. Should be balls to the wall.

Still looking forward to the women's tournament more than the men's though.

[corporatejay]

Can anyone with CBA knowledge confirm whether some of these dudes can be picked up by NHL squads after the tourney.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Can anyone with CBA knowledge confirm whether some of these dudes can be picked up by NHL squads after the tourney.

Depending on whether they can get out of their current contracts (e.g. NHL out clauses or transfer agreement or their current team is done for the season)

The UFAs who have played in European leagues this season, which is most of them, have to clear waivers before signing NHL deals.

Vey can't play in the NHL this season. As a Flames RFA, the deadline to sign a NHL deal was December 1st.

The ones on AHL deals certainly can.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

2006 and 2010 Olympic participation was explicitly guaranteed in the 2005 CBA.

Don't think it would have been too hard to extend that to further Olympics.

According to Bettman and Burke, the players didn't even bring up the Olympics in the 2013 CBA negotiations.

edit: The players allowed the Olympic participation guarantee to fall out of the CBA without a word.

It doesn’t need to be in the CBA for them to participate though. I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t be going, and if the players are upset then yes they absolutely dropped the ball if it was that important to them. I just disagree with the statement that it’s their fault they aren’t going. The league decided they would not participate if they didn’t get an extension on the current CBA, so is it the leagues fault for not offering a better deal?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It doesn’t need to be in the CBA for them to participate though. I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t be going, and if the players are upset then yes they absolutely dropped the ball if it was that important to them. I just disagree with the statement that it’s their fault they aren’t going. The league decided they would not participate if they didn’t get an extension on the current CBA, so is it the leagues fault for not offering a better deal?

Well....which is it?

The League was given a raw deal by the IOC/IIHF and was given absolutely nothing by the NHLPA/Players.

At some point it cant continue to be the League's fault.

No. It is not the League's fault for not 'offering a better deal.' There was no better deal to be had. The IOC/IIHF eventually reverted to the original agreement which sucked in its own right.

No. Nobody was willing to budge in any meaningful direction so the NHL told them to shove it and went their own way, which they have every right to do.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

That is the best we could do !? That is one ugly roster. I think good WHL teams could beat them.

lol no chance, otherwise WHL players should be dominant at the AHL or KHL level.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

They had ample opportunities to secure Olympic participation. They didnt take any of them.

And 'Because their employer wouldn’t let them go?'

Of course!

Their employer (<-Important term) had to pay their travel, accommodation, insurance and lose revenue from their primary business in exchange for......nothing.

Didn’t the IOC offer to pay the insurance premiums? In any event the league would have been more than happy to pay those costs had they signed the extension, the players simply didn’t agree to do so. But that didn’t stop the league from opting to participate anyways.

I think we’ve already been over the whole gate revenue from 82 games is the same if there is a 2 week break during the season.

Yeah, I think thats an easy deal to pass on.

And then, magnanimously, they still offered terms for the players to participate in exchange for a lengthened CBA, etc, and the players (employees) didnt give so much as an inch.

Was the league’s offer negotiable? Hard to accuse them of not giving an inch if the only option was a yard.

So yeah, they decided not to risk their business interests and pay for their employees to go to Korea in exchange for nothing.

Which they are well within their right to do.

Seems pretty straightforward. The employees bargained collectively regarding what was important to them and they made it clear that Olympic participation was not included in that conversation.

Its 100% on the players. Nobody gets anything for nothing.

At the end of the day the league could have still opted to participate, had they offered to do so without the extension and the players responded by saying they’d only go if an extension with escrow language removed was put on the table as an offer then I’d agree it would be completely on the players. This however is a case where both(<-key word) sides couldn’t come to an agreement and so one side opted to use their right to deny the players the option to participate. I’m not even blaming the owners here, I’m just saying that putting all of the blame on the PA because they didn’t take a deal they didn’t want to take as if that was the only way they could have participated is a little misleading.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It doesn’t need to be in the CBA for them to participate though. I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t be going, and if the players are upset then yes they absolutely dropped the ball if it was that important to them. I just disagree with the statement that it’s their fault they aren’t going. The league decided they would not participate if they didn’t get an extension on the current CBA, so is it the leagues fault for not offering a better deal?

Well when the players drop the ball and fail to get a written guarantee on something they claim is extremely important to them, they can't complain about it when a deal offered to them by the NHL to get that thing isn't to their liking a few months ahead of a deadline.

If the situation was reversed; the NHL really wanted to go to the Olympics and the players didn't and the NHL failed to even bring it up in the last CBA negotation, is it the Players' fault when the offer they give to the NHL isn't to the NHL's liking? Or is it the NHL's fault for letting the situation get to this point?

[Max Cow Disease]

As someone who was never hugely invested in many of the international tournaments anyways, I say why not? May as well give these guys a chance to play their arses off for their country on more of a grand stage. The results may potentially surprise some folks.

[Oil Stain]

I'm just glad Klinkhammer made the team.

That's a name we can all get behind.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, I'm someone. And I'll say it twice. Seems like I'm not alone on this, either.

Same here. I watch all of the games of the Spengler Cup too, not just those involving Canada.

[madmike]

It's come to this: Team Canada using a Polish ringer

Actually I think it's awesome. Had no idea Wolski had Canadian citizenship.

Edit: Looks like he grew up mostly in Canada so not a ringer at all.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Didn’t the IOC offer to pay the insurance premiums?

The problem was the IOC started this whole thing by saying they weren't going to pay for the insurance (which they had in the past). So the NHL owners got together to evaluate how NHL players going to the Olympics in the middle of their season benefitted them. They decided it didn't at all, and said no thank you. Then the IOC backpeddled and said "whoa whoa okay we will pay the insurance", but it was too late.

[Oling_Roachinen]

iggy_oi defending a union? Now I've seen everything :P

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Didn’t the IOC offer to pay the insurance premiums?

No, the IIHF did. Not that the NHL should really care about where the money comes from if it does come from somewhere else, but they did say that the IIHF spending significant on NHL athletes instead of the grass-root hockey-growing expenditures it wanted to do would be a mistake. Especially if the only reason for the NHL to go to the Olympics is to grow the game, taking money from an organization thats purpose is to do so is counter intuitive.

I don't know if you can say that gate revenue would be the same. There is hockey fatigue and 10 months of hockey might mean less attendance. Throw in the World Cup, where the NHL does see that revenue, and if that's the "best on best" it's now potentially going to be the tournament seeing high attendance and additional profit for the NHL.

On top of that, you have the risk of injuries to the athletes.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by madmike

It's come to this: Team Canada using a Polish ringer

Actually I think it's awesome. Had no idea Wolski had Canadian citizenship.

Edit: Looks like he grew up mostly in Canada so not a ringer at all.

I remember a lot of fans being upset he was left off the Canadian World Junior team one year.