What's the bar for any kind of scientific evidence? To start with it has to be unambiguous in supporting only one hypothesis.
Certainly more than single viewpoint fuzzy videos that lack all the relevant data.
Relevant data? We have no conventional understanding of how these things are even flying, as seen clearly in the videos.
-uniform heat signature
-no rotor wash/exhaust plume
-no flight surfaces
I'd like to hear more theories about how they think the object in '04 disappeared off radar and then reappeared at their rendezvous point happened, some teasing going on there or what?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karl262
Relevant data? We have no conventional understanding of how these things are even flying, as seen clearly in the videos.
-uniform heat signature
-no rotor wash/exhaust plume
-no flight surfaces
But eye witness reports are not reliable and can't be trusted.
But eye witness reports are not reliable and can't be trusted.
Well, they're not, and they shouldn't.
I have seen and experienced things in my life for which I cannot account naturalistically, and yet I also recognize that my own recollections of things are—with great frequency—extremely flawed. It's human nature to be fooled by our own senses, and for our brains to construct explanations without our awareness of it happening.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Relevant data? We have no conventional understanding of how these things are even flying, as seen clearly in the videos.
-uniform heat signature
-no rotor wash/exhaust plume
-no flight surfaces
Balloons meet all those criteria. Jets far enough away would appear to meet those criteria. Assuming that the objects are flying objects at all and not artifacts or lens flares or other non-physical phenomenon, which of course would behave unlike any aircraft because they aren't.
I think you're making unwarranted assumptions about what you are seeing in the videos.
And yes relevant data. GPS coordinates, heading, attitude of the observing aircraft. All relevant data about the camera system (i.e. orientation of gimbals or other movable components). Without relevant data object flying away at supernatural speeds looks the same as camera reaching the end of its ability to track the target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dion
But eye witness reports are not reliable and can't be trusted.
I was replying to him with respect to sensor data (i.e. videos), I wasn't talking about eye witness reports.
But yes eye witness reports are unreliable. Our memories aren't like little video files we play back. Our memories are reconstructed every time we recall them. One analogy I read was like assembling a little puzzle. Which is why false memories are a thing, if the memory is recalled in a way that introduces information (i.e. talking to a neighbour about an event, being questioned about it by the media, etc) then the new information can become incorporated into the memory.
Every human is susceptible to this.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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It would be an absolutely transforming event in human history. But, the stakes are so high on whether it's true or false that we must demand the more rigorous standards of evidence—precisely because it's so exciting. That's the circumstance in which our hopes may dominate our skeptical scrutiny of the data. So, we have to be very careful. There have been a few instances in the [past]. We thought we found something, and it always turned out to be explicable.
So, a kind of skepticism is routinely applied to the radio search for extraterrestrial intelligence by its most fervent proponents. I do not see [in] the alien abduction situation a similar rigorous application of scientific skepticism by its proponents. Instead, I see enormous acceptance at face value, and leading the witness, and all sorts of suggestions. Plus, the contamination by the general culture of this idea.
It seems to me there is a big difference between the two approaches to extraterrestrial intelligence, although I'm frequently written to [to] say how could I search for extraterrestrial intelligence and disbelieve that we're being visited. I don't see any contradiction at all. It's a wonderful prospect, but requires the most severe and rigorous standards of evidence.
To be taken seriously, you need physical evidence that can be examined at leisure by skeptical scientists: a scraping of the whole ship, and the discovery that it contains isotopic ratios that aren't present on Earth, chemical elements from the so-called island of stability, very heavy elements that don't exist on Earth. Or material of absolutely bizarre properties of many sorts—electrical conductivity or ductility. There are many things like that that would instantly give serious credence to an account.
But there's no scrapings, no interior photographs, no filched page from the captain's log book. All there are are stories. There are instances of disturbed soil, but I can disturb soil with a shovel. There are instances of people claiming to flash lights at UFOs and the UFOs flash back. But, pilots of airplanes can also flash back, especially if they think it would be a good joke to play on the UFO enthusiast. So, that does not constitute good evidence.
Balloons meet all those criteria. Jets far enough away would appear to meet those criteria. Assuming that the objects are flying objects at all and not artifacts or lens flares or other non-physical phenomenon, which of course would behave unlike any aircraft because they aren't.
I think you're making unwarranted assumptions about what you are seeing in the videos.
And yes relevant data. GPS coordinates, heading, attitude of the observing aircraft. All relevant data about the camera system (i.e. orientation of gimbals or other movable components). Without relevant data object flying away at supernatural speeds looks the same as camera reaching the end of its ability to track the target.
I was replying to him with respect to sensor data (i.e. videos), I wasn't talking about eye witness reports.
But yes eye witness reports are unreliable. Our memories aren't like little video files we play back. Our memories are reconstructed every time we recall them. One analogy I read was like assembling a little puzzle. Which is why false memories are a thing, if the memory is recalled in a way that introduces information (i.e. talking to a neighbour about an event, being questioned about it by the media, etc) then the new information can become incorporated into the memory.
Every human is susceptible to this.
You should probably tell this to the Pentagon because they are totally stumped on this. They seem to think these things came down from 80,000 feet to 28000, then down to 50 feet in under a second. Turns out it was just balloons.
He didn't say that. He didn't say "it was" anything. It could be a balloon based on calculations like those done in this video. That's a huge distinction.
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You should probably tell this to the Pentagon because they are totally stumped on this. They seem to think these things came down from 80,000 feet to 28000, then down to 50 feet in under a second. Turns out it was just balloons.
And their evidence of this is? The Pentagon is always right?
Their authority or expertise isn't evidence, and appealing to it as support for a claim is logical fallacy.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
He didn't say that. He didn't say "it was" anything. It could be a balloon based on calculations like those done in this video. That's a huge distinction.
Exactly.
And on the spectrum of balloon to top secret advanced aircraft to aliens the probability is more towards balloon than aliens without further data.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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I have seen and experienced things in my life for which I cannot account naturalistically, and yet I also recognize that my own recollections of things are—with great frequency—extremely flawed. It's human nature to be fooled by our own senses, and for our brains to construct explanations without our awareness of it happening.
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I spent 20 years thinking I was crazy after seeing some weird light in the sky, and questioning if it was real, or if I just drank more than I thought that night. Turned out it was real, it had just never been explained before. It was Steve.
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Navy pilots used Raytheon tech to track a strange UFO
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Called the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, the government program analyzed UAP imagery and data such as the images from the Raytheon-made ATFLIR.
“We might be the system that caught the first evidence of E.T. out there,” said Aaron Maestas, director of engineering and chief engineer for Surveillance and Targeting Systems at Raytheon's Space and Airborne Systems business. “But I’m not surprised we were able to see it. ATFLIR is designed to operate on targets that are traveling in excess of Mach 1. It’s a very agile optical system with a sensitive detector that can distinguish between the cold sky and the hot moving target quite easily.”
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Even so, the video images are not definitive proof that the jet pilots were chasing an actual UFO.
“To really be sure, we would need the raw data,” said Dr. Steve Cummings, vice president of Technology Development and Execution at Raytheon Space and Airborne Systems. “Visual displays alone are not the best evidence.”
Quote:
So how best to track an alien spaceship in our skies?
“Wide-area search of some form or another," said Cummings. “I would want want at least two sensors, like radar and [electro-optical/infrared], to search the skies...One way to actually verify these and be absolutely certain that this is not an anomaly is to get the same target, behaving the same way on multiple sensors.”
"One day, we might receive a signal from a planet like this," Hawking said, referring to the potentially habitable alien planet Gliese 832c. "But we should be wary of answering back. Meeting an advanced civilization could be like Native Americans encountering Columbus. That didn't turn out so well," he added in 2016 during the documentary "Stephen Hawking's Favorite Places," which streamed on the CuriosityStream video service.
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"One day, we might receive a signal from a planet like this," Hawking said, referring to the potentially habitable alien planet Gliese 832c. "But we should be wary of answering back. Meeting an advanced civilization could be like Native Americans encountering Columbus. That didn't turn out so well," he added in 2016 during the documentary "Stephen Hawking's Favorite Places," which streamed on the CuriosityStream video service.
There could be a predatory race out there and everyone else is being quiet because they know about it. Probably laughing at how foolish we being.
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Many UFOs Are Just Super-Secret Military Aircraft
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“The basic instinct of intelligence personnel looking at the most convincing UFO sightings is to assume that they’re secret prototype aircraft or drones, developed either by another nation, or by another part of the government—but in a situation where the information is so compartmentalized nobody else can get access,” Pope said.
“Another theory is that some of these sightings are attributable to some sort of atmospheric plasma phenomenon that science doesn’t yet fully understand,” Pope added, using the scientific term for electrified air.
“Many UFO sightings in the southwest United States during the 1980s were actually secret advanced military aircraft such as the Lockheed F-117 and Northrop Grumman B-2,” Elizondo said.
Quote:
The military and the defense industry have also been hard at work on so-called “hypersonic” aircraft and space-planes capable of flying at speed exceeding Mach 5. Some of those efforts are public. Others, such as Lockheed Martin’s self-funded SR-72 hypersonic spy plane, remain cloaked in secrecy.
The abundance of secret prototypes plying American skies gives plenty of cover to government investigators and skeptical outsiders whose impulse is to dismiss possible evidence of alien life. “That said, there are those in government—including, clearly, some of the intelligence officials who worked in the AATIP—who are prepared to think the unthinkable, and say that some of these things might be extraterrestrial,” Pope said.
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There has been no shortage of rumored or confirmed, high-performance military prototypes in recent years that could account for UFO sightings. The U.S. Air Force secretly developed the RQ-170 stealth spy drone in the early 2000s, finally admitting to its existence only after a photographer spotted one at an airfield in Afghanistan in 2007. It’s unclear whether sightings of the RQ-170 explain any recent UFO reports.
More recently, the Air Force has been working on a bigger and ever stealthier spy drone called the RQ-180, along with the new radar-evading B-21 bomber. In 2014, a mysterious, wedge-shaped aircraft—possibly an early technology demonstrator for the B-21 program—was photographed flying over Kansas.
There could be a predatory race out there and everyone else is being quiet because they know about it. Probably laughing at how foolish we being.
I think that Soda, fast food and especially MacDonalds, chocolate were all inspired by alien intervention to fatten us up and make us taste better. They also addicted us to TV.
One day massive harvester space ships will land here and Aliens will come out with free samples of chips and cheese wrapped in bacon and tell us that they have 631 free stations on the 96 inch 3d TV's inside and we'll willingly march our way onto the processing line with chocolate on our faces and Kim Kardasian on our minds.
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Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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