05-30-2020, 10:39 AM
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#221
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kelowna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
There's going to have to be a deep inquiry into the RCMP on this.
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Inquiry on what? That the RCMP didn’t take this guys guns? That they didn’t arrest him for alleged offences? Your expectations of justice when compared to reality are completely out of whack. It doesn’t matter if someone says you did something in passing, it they are unwilling to provide a formal statement and testify in court than the RCMP can do next to nothing.
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05-30-2020, 10:48 AM
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#222
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Norm!
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More around the process and procedures used, the lack of an amber alert or community warning.
Yeah no matter what people think the lack of action and documentation on complaints especially one on the domestic assault allegations. How a guy who had lost the right to have a firearm due to a felony conviction managed to hold onto his weapons and procure new ones.
Its not about a sense of justice, an inquiry has to be called into this because there's enough here to wonder if either there are holes in procedures and training, if there were leadership problems etc.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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05-30-2020, 12:24 PM
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#223
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Franchise Player
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There needs to be a lengthy inquiry a la Moncton to figure out the shortcomings. By all accounts in law enforcement circles, it was handled pretty poorly with typical lack of command and control that the RCMP has been known for in these large scale events.
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05-30-2020, 12:28 PM
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#224
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar_e
There needs to be a lengthy inquiry a la Moncton to figure out the shortcomings. By all accounts in law enforcement circles, it was handled pretty poorly with typical lack of command and control that the RCMP has been known for in these large scale events.
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I just don't have much faith in the RCMP anymore, I think their day has come and gone. Whether its poor leadership, poor training, and improper mandate, they just end up with egg on their face all the time.
From the Nova Scotia shooting, to refusing or picking and choosing to enforce the law over the illegal blockades, to backing off on their investigation of the PMO's office.
I think there needs to be a major reform and reinvention of the RCMP.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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06-04-2020, 04:26 PM
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#225
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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As suspected...
RCMP confirms N.S. gunman illegally acquired all 5 guns used during mass shooting
Quote:
Nova Scotia RCMP have confirmed that all the firearms used by the gunman believed to have killed 22 people in the province in April were obtained illegally.
The new information was shared during a news briefing on Thursday, the first update from Nova Scotia RCMP on its investigation into the mass killing in more than a month.
"This component of the investigation remains active and [involves] international law enforcement partner agencies," said RCMP Supt. Darren Campbell.
Three of the illegal guns came from the U.S., one was obtained illegally in Canada through the estate of a deceased associate, and the fifth belonged to Const. Heidi Stevenson, who was killed while trying to stop the gunman. Only one of the guns used in the attack was mentioned in a 2011 police bulletin about the gunman.
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Liberal response?
Take away all the legal guns from responsible owners!!!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...ne-4-1.5588433
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06-04-2020, 04:28 PM
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#226
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Norm!
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Damn I put this in the wrong thread, my bad.
Was just posting this update
All illegal guns. 3 from the States.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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06-19-2020, 07:58 PM
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#227
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Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
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According to Maclean's sources, banking withdrawals suggest the shooter was a CI or agent of the RCMP and perhaps explains why the RCMP ignored complaints against him.
https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/...ver-operation/
Quote:
The withdrawal of $475,000 in cash by the man who killed 22 Nova Scotians in April matches the method the RCMP uses to send money to confidential informants and agents, sources say.
Gabriel Wortman, who is responsible for the largest mass killing in Canadian history, withdrew the money from a Brink’s depot in Dartmouth, N.S., on March 30, stashing a carryall filled with hundred-dollar bills in the trunk of his car.
According to a source close to the police investigation the money came from CIBC Intria, a subsidiary of the chartered bank that handles currency transactions.
Sources in both banking and the RCMP say the transaction is consistent with how the RCMP funnels money to its confidential informants and agents, and is not an option available to private banking customers.
The RCMP has repeatedly said that it had no “special relationship” with Wortman.
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06-19-2020, 08:39 PM
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#228
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That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
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That’s not good.
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06-19-2020, 09:02 PM
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#229
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Franchise Player
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This article from Maclean’s earlier in the week has even more info about his ties, including the fact some of the RCMP affiants on the original search warrants was based in Organized Motorcycle Gangs and CIs.
https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/...-the-shooting/
Quote:
The officer who swore the RCMP’s first search warrants was Sgt. Angela Hawryluk. A 28-year veteran of the RCMP, Hawryluk stipulated in the documents that she is experienced in outlaw biker gangs, drug trafficking and confidential informants.
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Quote:
However, according to one law-enforcement source, Wortman often spent time with Hells Angels, and he had at least one associate with links to organized crime.
Sources say he was friendly with Peter Alan Griffon, a Portapique neighbour linked to a Mexican drug cartel. Sources say Griffon printed the decals that Wortman used on the replica RCMP cruiser he used in his murders.
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Quote:
A number of current and former RCMP members familiar with the way the force handles undercover operations but not privy to details about this investigation have speculated that Wortman’s case has the hallmarks of a police informant operation.
Officers are struck by a speeding ticket the RCMP issued Wortman at 5:58 pm on Feb. 12, 2020, on Portapique Beach Road. Wortman was driving one of the former police vehicles in his collection.
At the time the ticket was issued, the RCMP was in the midst of undertaking multiple arrests of Hell’s Angels and their associates in Halifax and New Brunswick. Officers speculate that if Wortman was a confidential informant that his cover had been blown.
“The ticket stinks” said one current RCMP member. “At 6 o’clock at night in February in rural Nova Scotia nobody is doing radar. But it’s a standard trick used to pass messages to informants or create cover to prove to the targets that the informant and the police are on opposite teams.”
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Edit: $475k is next level agent money for the record.
Last edited by jar_e; 06-19-2020 at 09:06 PM.
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06-19-2020, 09:57 PM
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#230
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
That’s not good.
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Not good is an understatement.
If its true, they pretty much funded his shooting spree.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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06-19-2020, 10:13 PM
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#231
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saddledome, Calgary
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It also makes me wonder what the real story behind him going nuts and going on the killing spree is all about...
Maybe one day the truth will come out
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06-20-2020, 05:53 AM
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#232
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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^^^^^
Maybe he knew his cover was blown and he was likely to be killed soon. If he's already really off that might be the straw that broke the camels back.
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06-20-2020, 11:37 AM
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#233
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Franchise Player
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I read the Maclean's story. I haven't really followed how reputable Maclean's has been recently nor the history of the shooter. But this is one of those times where it feels like where there's smoke there's fire.
There's definitely more to this story then what has been let on.
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06-20-2020, 11:41 AM
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#234
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntingwhale
I read the Maclean's story. I haven't really followed how reputable Maclean's has been recently nor the history of the shooter. But this is one of those times where it feels like where there's smoke there's fire.
There's definitely more to this story then what has been let on.
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Heres sort of what I'm inclined to think:
If the guy was a CI the vast majority of the RCMP might not be likely to know that. Hence the 'C.'
So when they're asked about having an association with this guy and they deny it, they may be telling the truth to the best of their knowledge. Its not like CIs are known to every member of the organization.
Now when it comes out later that perhaps he was a CI for the RCMP then obviously heads are going to have to roll because somebody screwed up huge, but that somebody is probably in a privileged position.
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The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
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06-20-2020, 04:39 PM
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#235
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Heres sort of what I'm inclined to think:
If the guy was a CI the vast majority of the RCMP might not be likely to know that. Hence the 'C.'
So when they're asked about having an association with this guy and they deny it, they may be telling the truth to the best of their knowledge. Its not like CIs are known to every member of the organization.
Now when it comes out later that perhaps he was a CI for the RCMP then obviously heads are going to have to roll because somebody screwed up huge, but that somebody is probably in a privileged position.
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If he was a CI, the RCMP will never admit it.
Agents, on the other hand, become compellable witnesses and are of public record when used throughout the court process (and then right into witness protection). I imagine if there’s some big arrests in the near future, it’ll come out. Or, if RCMP want this buried forever, will suicide pill the files and we’ll never hear about it.
A one time payment of $475k is agent level money at that. Historically, that $475k wouldn’t be purely payment for him. Part of the objectives and scenarios laid out would usually require him to use the money to buy various things used in the operations, etc
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06-20-2020, 11:57 PM
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#236
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kelowna
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I can tell you this story is BS because if this guy were an agent, he would be paid by the RCMP directly, not directed to pick up money from Brinks or whatever. Doesn’t happen.
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06-21-2020, 12:30 AM
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#237
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Franchise Player
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nm
Last edited by jar_e; 06-21-2020 at 12:39 AM.
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06-21-2020, 09:53 AM
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#238
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulu29
I can tell you this story is BS because if this guy were an agent, he would be paid by the RCMP directly, not directed to pick up money from Brinks or whatever. Doesn’t happen.
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Yeah, you're right. The RCMP would likely have an officer in full red Uniform and Giant Hat on Horseback trot up to his house and hand him sacks with dollar signs on them.
Maybe even take a selfie together and post it on Instagram.
Paying him directly with an E-Transfer labelled 'RCMP CI SNITCH PAY' might circumvent the 'Confidential' aspect. Maybe just a little.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
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06-21-2020, 10:09 AM
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#239
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kelowna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Yeah, you're right. The RCMP would likely have an officer in full red Uniform and Giant Hat on Horseback trot up to his house and hand him sacks with dollar signs on them.
Maybe even take a selfie together and post it on Instagram.
Paying him directly with an E-Transfer labelled 'RCMP CI SNITCH PAY' might circumvent the 'Confidential' aspect. Maybe just a little.
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Yes that’s exactly how agents and CI’s are paid.
The agent would be paid directly by their handlers. Probably in like plainclothes, maybe arriving in an unmarked car, possibly in a covert meeting place. Hard to fathom eh?
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06-21-2020, 10:11 AM
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#240
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Yeah its mind boggling the feds nor the province have opened a deep reaching inquiry into all this, and what role (if any) the RCMP played.
Lots of secretive/cover-upish kind of stuff appearing in every aspect of this story.
More Liberal transparency i suppose.
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