Has Jack Eichel already played his best hockey? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

bigrangy · 10-29-2021, 08:08 PM

Sorry for another Eichel thread but I think this question won’t get adequately answered elsewhere.

First off, the premise. I think everyone here agrees that adding a top flight centre to the Flames would be awesome and worth the assets used to do it, but what I think the divide is is whether or not anyone agrees on if Eichel’s many question marks will get good answers.

So the question is: Has Jack Eichel already played his best hockey?

If Eichel is traded for, once he comes back from surgery, can he be expected to still play at a ~90 point pace and be a threat every night? Or will the injury and potentially risky surgery not be the perfect fix, and he’s constantly in and out of lineups with issues relating to it or just never the same player afterwards.

I ask because I really don’t know. If I knew Eichel would come back as an elite center, I’d be comfortable trading big assets for him, but I’m also very uncomfortable with his health status. Is this a gamble worth taking?

Side discussion, don’t let it derail the thread: The same thing is going on with Monahan right now, can he ever be the same player again? If he won’t be then why will Eichel?

Merge/delete this if it’s dumb

Cycling76er · 10-29-2021, 08:10 PM

More Jack Eichel talk please.

djsFlames · 10-29-2021, 08:13 PM

Moar Eichel!

GranteedEV · 10-29-2021, 08:14 PM

Jack Eichel was a couple goals shy of PPG while playing through this injury before shutting it down.

I am confident that not only will he be a dominant force, but the chance to play on a balanced roster will make his job easier than it's ever been.

He's too explosive a creator to not be a very effective piece. A linedriver who can produce on PP1, with speed, size. And under Sutter, he'll probably learn to play more of a Kopitar style conservative game where he doesn't need a four point night to be a dominant force.

djsFlames · 10-29-2021, 08:15 PM

I want to see another one just to see how many heads will explode.

I would make it but don't want to be sin binned.

dino7c · 10-29-2021, 08:15 PM

For 10M we should be talking 100 points...PPG bare minimum

1qqaaz · 10-29-2021, 08:17 PM

I'll use this extra Eichel talk as an opportunity to trash the Oilers.

I wouldn't be surprised if McDavid hits his career high in points this season, while he hit his career high in points per game last season. It's downhill from there.

Elite players often peak offensively around the age of 24/25.

GioforPM · 10-29-2021, 08:18 PM

mrdonkey · 10-29-2021, 08:19 PM

Here’s hoping. **** the Knights.

djsFlames · 10-29-2021, 08:20 PM

Actually thats a good direction to take this thread. Are the truly elite players peaking earlier than the good ones?

Ovi and Crosby both had their 100+ point seasons in the first 5 years of their careers.

Still had strong PPGs later, but had more shortened seasons so didn't hit those totals

FlamesAddiction · 10-29-2021, 08:22 PM

Nobody really knows the answer to this. If I had to pick one or the other, I would say yes. He missed a large part of his 23 year old season (pandemic), most of his 24 year old season (injury), and will be missing most of his 25 year old season (injury). Those are the years that elite players usually hit peak production these days. There is a good chance that by the end of this season, he will have played less than 30 games over 2 calendar years, and less than 100 over 3 calendar year. All in his early 20s.

Of course, production is not all there is. Most elite players slow down in producing, but become better overall players on the back half of 25. I worry that not playing a lot, and not even being able to practice hard, are going to affect his development.

For his sake I hope I am wrong, but I think there is a lot of reason to be concerned that his best years have already passed.

Knightslayer · 10-29-2021, 08:25 PM

I think he is going to be a way different player and whoever gets him will regret what they gave up to get 3 or 4 years of him. That's my opinion.

GioforPM · 10-29-2021, 08:25 PM

The surgery may work, but there could be scarring, the area could be weaker and susceptible to further injury, he may not come back as strong.

I’d still roll the dice but it’s a significant risk.

bigrangy · 10-29-2021, 08:27 PM

I keep bouncing back and forth on this.

I really don’t know if I want the Flames to trade for Eichel or to stay away, and I really want make up my mind before he is traded.

Crosby had some bad injuries and came back, Kucherov of course came back, I can’t think of many big stars that didn’t come back from injury so early in their careers. It makes me think that yup, Eichel will be back, no problem, but then I think neck issues are voodoo. I’m definitely thinking about it too much.

djsFlames · 10-29-2021, 08:27 PM

He's still a surefire bet to be a PPG player or a notch above it.

But he may have missed that point in his career where he would've flirted with 110 or 120, if he had that capability in him. Because of covid and the injury, we probably won't know.

djsFlames · 10-29-2021, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

I think he is going to be a way different player and whoever gets him will regret what they gave up to get 3 or 4 years of him. That's my opinion.

Its not "3 or 4",

It'll be 4.25 years, roughly. And 5 post-seasons, depending on the team he goes to.

Beatle17 · 10-29-2021, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsFlames

He's still a surefire bet to be a PPG player or a notch above it.

But he may have missed that point in his career where he would've flirted with 110 or 120, if he had that capability in him. Because of covid and the injury, we probably won't know.

He has been this type of a scorer 2 times in his career out of 6 years. I hope he comes back strong but I wouldn't be laying any bets that he is PPG player.

Stochansky · 10-29-2021, 08:34 PM

Long time lurker weighing in: I’ll totally admit that I was so frustrated with the last several seasons that I was 100% on board with Eichel regardless of cost. Feel free to paint me a complete homer, but I look at how this team is playing under Sutter (small sample size acknowledged) and I can’t help but think that the cost of Eichel isn’t worth what we’re currently working with. I’m leaning towards being very happy if the Flames avoid an Eichel deal (presuming it is involving a Dube/Mangiapane + draft picks) and look at other avenues to improve moving forward. *Thanks Zamler*

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FlamesAddiction · 10-29-2021, 08:35 PM

I just hope he isn't another Lindros. I know that head injuries are different than spine injuries, but both should give people concern.

A lot of people who missed Lindros's early years don't realize that he was a phenom who was considered "the next one", and how truly dominant he was. A few teams chased the dragon after Philly's medical and training staff broke him, but he was never the same. I don't want to see Eichel in that pile.

Guys like Crosby and Lemieux overcame some serious injuries and were still dominant, but for every example of success, there are ones who aren't as lucky.

Jiggy · 10-29-2021, 08:36 PM

Buffalo really screwed him. By the time he plays again it will be over a year since he played a game. It will take him a while to get back into game shape and speed. And then the team that trades for him hopes the surgery goes well and he can be back to full health for the 3.5 years they have him. It's a big gamble.