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Old 09-28-2020, 09:49 AM   #4321
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Originally Posted by Looch City View Post
We need a new debate format with clear physical consequences if the candidates lie.

Like they both sit in electric chairs or something. Live fact checking and they get shocked if they're lying.

Or they bring back SLIME....Uh-Oh Presidential Edition! ??
Fabulous idea.

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Old 09-28-2020, 10:13 AM   #4322
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Originally Posted by Looch City View Post
We need a new debate format with clear physical consequences if the candidates lie.

Like they both sit in electric chairs or something. Live fact checking and they get shocked if they're lying.

Or they bring back SLIME....Uh-Oh Presidential Edition! ??
I'd be for that, but we'd end up at the end of most presidential debates with dead candidates.

then after the next debate dead VP candidates.

Eventually we'd be voting for the janitors that clean the stage after everyone voids their bowels from multiple electric shocks.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:29 AM   #4323
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Biden polled better in the swing states against Trump than any other potential candidate...people who think Bernie or whoever had a better chance don't have a ####ing clue what they are talking about and don't understand who will actually decide the election

Who was your Guy/Girl to beat Trump?
Again, I am talking right after Trump got elected. You know, back in 2016.

The Democrats had 4 years to prepare.

They prepared with a candidate that is over the hill and long past his prime.

Again, from the perspective of doing everything you can to win, one does sit and wonder who is coming up with these brilliant decisions.

Biden is a 'meh' candidate. Even most people on here that hate Trump are saying the same thing. Just not the guy I think should have been picked.

As for who SHOULD have been picked, I was okay with Bernie, but if you want to tell me there is 'nobody' else, that is pretty sad.

Not a single person within the Democrat party with leadership abilities? Hard to believe.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:35 AM   #4324
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The charts are labeled State to State Migration. Yes California's population is growing due to international immigration and natural growth, but domestically it's losing population, quite a lot, while similar states (Arizona, Texas) are gaining. I thought this was obvious.

Look at the chart BoLevi posted, it shows a net loss of ~3 million people over 18 years.
California is also starting to lose businesses, with companies like Twitter, Pinterest, SpaceX and others either buying themselves out of lease agreements, or simply choosing to expand in other states.

At this point it is pretty obvious that with their massive budgetary shortfall, people pissed off about how they are structuring their taxes, housing issues, massive incompetency by government officials over a very long period of time, that they are heading towards a complete mess.

The really, really strange thing is that it also seems like it doesn't matter where people lean politically. If you follow some of the more important tech figures, they are constantly talking about hundreds of their friends both personally and professionally planning to leave.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:44 AM   #4325
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That the vast majority of what he has done is fraudulent. He's over-reported the value of properties to generate losses so he can dodge taxes on his income. He's a grifter that is finally being caught in his grift and will have to answer for it. There is so much shady stuff in those returns that the audit has to come against him. He manufactured deductions by doing a lot of borderline stuff that may just land not only him in prison, but his kids too.
I agree.

Except for the part about having to answer for it.

The Panama Papers have shown that the rich don't need to answer for anything. They have built a system where they can do stuff like this and get away with it.

The only shocking thing about the revelations is that people continue to be amazed that this stuff happens, and that the rich and elite will do anything to maintain power.

Not even a ground-breaking, worldwide investigative journalism effort that cost people their lives will make people wake up.

Because the solution to all our problems is just getting Trump out of office, amirite?
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:47 AM   #4326
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Of course the Dems are focusing on how little he paid, but I think that is the wrong approach. I'm sure most of you would agree he has been fighting tooth and nail to hide these returns not because of that, but that it would show he in fact has been lying about his wealth, and that he's in big debt.

I'm betting Licoln Project is going to go after him on his lying about his wealth, not so much how little he paid in taxes, I mean his supporters will just say he was being smart, playing the system to pay as little in taxes as possible.

The thing that will upset Trump the most is people knowing not only is he not a billionaire, but that he's deeply in debt and a failure. Driving home that point will really get to Trump on a deeply personal level, hurt his ego and emberass him.
The Democrats made the tax returns all about his supposed Russia connection, of which there is no indication. Something Matt Taibbi has been seething about for a long time.

In the end it has always been about the fact that Trump is broke. But of course I doubt that will actually mean anything to the voters.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:50 AM   #4327
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Yeah, a "Who owns your debt, Mr President? Who owns you?" sort of attack could be a really explosive debate moment if Biden wants to go down that path.
Interestingly enough, the US government tends not to hire people with debt issues because they see it as a threat to being blackmailed.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:52 AM   #4328
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
The Democrats made the tax returns all about his supposed Russia connection, of which there is no indication. Something Matt Taibbi has been seething about for a long time.

In the end it has always been about the fact that Trump is broke. But of course I doubt that will actually mean anything to the voters.
Except it is about Russia. What it does is highlight exactly how much leverage Russia has over him since he is in debt to the tune of nearly a billion dollars all owed to Russian oligarchs. It also indicates that he has two sets of books, one for the IRS and one for lenders. But you're right, this is something that most people won't give a crap about, because they're not understanding what this means.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:58 AM   #4329
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Interestingly enough, the US government tends not to hire people with debt issues because they see it as a threat to being blackmailed.
Which is why Jared Kushner kept getting denied a security clearance until Daddy-in-law demanded it be pushed through
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:00 AM   #4330
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Except it is about Russia. What it does is highlight exactly how much leverage Russia has over him since he is in debt to the tune of nearly a billion dollars all owed to Russian oligarchs. It also indicates that he has two sets of books, one for the IRS and one for lenders. But you're right, this is something that most people won't give a crap about, because they're not understanding what this means.
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"President Trump’s inexplicable behavior has many Americans asking, 'what does Putin have over him' that he’s behaving in a way that is basically inexplicable in any rational, logical line of thinking?" Schumer said. "Well, that’s why his tax returns would be so important. We should pass legislation that requires the president to release his tax returns. That was important before, but it’s so much more important after Helsinki now."
https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...returns-2018-7

You are right, the fact that the tax returns have shown him to be losing millions, it means he is open to blackmail or whatever else, but they never clearly indicated a Russian connection.

I really think you need to go read about Matt Taibbi has said about the supposed Russia connection. The mainstream media has so completely boondoggled the truth it is rather pathetic at this point.

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You know what was fake news? Most of the Russiagate story. There was no Trump-Russia conspiracy, that thing we just spent three years chasing. The Mueller Report is crystal clear on this.

He didn’t just “fail to establish” evidence of crime. His report is full of incredibly damning passages, like one about Russian officialdom’s efforts to reach the Trump campaign after the election: “They appeared not to have preexisting contacts and struggled to connect with senior officials around the President-Elect.”

Not only was there no “collusion,” the two camps didn’t even have each others’ phone numbers!
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-media-826246/
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:06 AM   #4331
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...returns-2018-7

You are right, the fact that the tax returns have shown him to be losing millions, it means he is open to blackmail or whatever else, but they never clearly indicated a Russian connection.

I really think you need to go read about Matt Taibbi has said about the supposed Russia connection. The mainstream media has so completely boondoggled the truth it is rather pathetic at this point.



https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-media-826246/

What does Mueller's report say?

The 448-page report painted a mixed picture of the president's conduct. While it did not establish that the Trump campaign criminally conspired with Russia to meddle in the election, it built an extensive obstruction-of-justice case against the president.
Mr Mueller said the report did not exonerate the president but stopped short of saying Mr Trump committed a crime.


"If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state," the report says.
"Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgement. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
It also revealed Mr Trump instructed a White House lawyer to try and remove Mr Mueller over alleged "conflicts of interest", but the lawyer resigned.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:09 AM   #4332
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Again, I think if you are interested in looking at it objectively, Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald have done a great job breaking down what happened.

For years I basically assumed it was a sure thing, and that Putin had something on Trump. Until I started actually reading what those guys have written on the subject and now it is becoming clear that the entire thing is a load of complete horse#####. The scary part is nobody gives a damn whether it is true or not. "We cannot prove the President committed a crime, but we also can't prove that he didn't" is not how the justice system works.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:13 AM   #4333
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Interestingly enough, the US government tends not to hire people with debt issues because they see it as a threat to being blackmailed.
Canadian institutions where that matters, like the CSE, are the same way and do their due diligence during their screening and interview process.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:17 AM   #4334
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...returns-2018-7

You are right, the fact that the tax returns have shown him to be losing millions, it means he is open to blackmail or whatever else, but they never clearly indicated a Russian connection.

I really think you need to go read about Matt Taibbi has said about the supposed Russia connection. The mainstream media has so completely boondoggled the truth it is rather pathetic at this point.



https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-media-826246/
I've been following what Sarah Kendzior has been doing regarding Trump and his connections to Russia.

https://twitter.com/user/status/856840446672285697

I highly recommend reading her book Hiding In Plain Sight.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1310638530016825345
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:55 AM   #4335
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Holy crap, it's an Azure post storm! Category Five (in a row)!!!

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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
The Panama Papers have shown that the rich don't need to answer for anything. They have built a system where they can do stuff like this and get away with it.

The only shocking thing about the revelations is that people continue to be amazed that this stuff happens, and that the rich and elite will do anything to maintain power.
The problem is that rich people run governments, and rich people influence governments by financing campaigns. They have paid for access to make these issues go away. Until we get money out of politics, these same things will continue to happen.

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Because the solution to all our problems is just getting Trump out of office, amirite?
It's not THE solution, but it is a start. We need to get back to there being a shred of honesty in the White House. No one in the history of this country has lied as much as Trump, and that has consequences. We need to begin restoring normalcy to our institutions and begin rebuilding trust in them. That will begin with removing the biggest liar from the office and getting people back into cabinet positions who actually believe in the office they have sworn to be the steward of.

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The Democrats made the tax returns all about his supposed Russia connection, of which there is no indication. Something Matt Taibbi has been seething about for a long time.
Hmmmm, I'm curious what you were expecting in the tax returns? Cancelled checks from Putin himself? The tax returns are the beginning of a nebulous search through the shell companies and interests that Trump received money from, then who he got loans from, and who backed those loans. That will determine the connections through to Russia or the Saudis or anyone else for that matter. We already know that money has been laundered for Russian oligarchs through Trump real estate holdings, and that is without looking at the tax records. The tax records will add more weight and substance to the court case being built against Trump.

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In the end it has always been about the fact that Trump is broke. But of course I doubt that will actually mean anything to the voters.
Even if it doesn't mean anything to the voters - nothing matters to his cult - it matters plenty to the NYAG and the on-going investigation into Trump, the Trump organization, and his family. There are enough smoking guns here to keep the AG's office busy for a while, and enough to make his kids very nervous. But I think there is enough there to make swing voters think long and hard about their vote.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:00 PM   #4336
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Canadian institutions where that matters, like the CSE, are the same way and do their due diligence during their screening and interview process.
Yup, I was reading an article the other day on how the CIA, FBI or even certain aspects of military intelligence would recruit people, and the biggest thing on the list was what your financial standing was.

Being in debt, or owing a lot of people is a massive red flag because it is almost the easiest thing to exploit.

Makes you wonder how screwed up the POTUS vetting process is if someone who everyone kinda figured was broke can make it to the last year of his his Presidency before the tax releases proving he is broke get released to the public.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:02 PM   #4337
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Hey Lanny, remember when Trump was in power and created all the tax loopholes he has used to exploit the taxpayer for the last 30 years?

Oh right.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:10 PM   #4338
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I've been following what Sarah Kendzior has been doing regarding Trump and his connections to Russia.

https://twitter.com/user/status/856840446672285697

I highly recommend reading her book Hiding In Plain Sight.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1310638530016825345
While she is 100% right at the Trump family is corrupt, and has been clearly manipulating a lot of things for many years to their advantage, it ignores the fact that many of the rich and elite do the same thing, including the Democrats.

I mean is it REALLY corrupt when you exploit legal loopholes and hire high priced tax attorneys so that at the end of the year you only need to minimal income taxes when the system has been setup by the rich and elite to do exactly that?

Remember when the Panama Papers came out and we were all outraged for 2 weeks? Nobody cares, and people literally died working to expose that information.

What about the latest FinSec files showing the world how big banks openly launder money for drug cartels and other corrupt organizations and are happy to pay the minimal fines to continue doing so?

Perhaps we are so caught up in the 'us versus them' mentality that we cannot see that BOTH sides are corrupt as hell, and constantly going for the lessor of two evils is making it worse. Does anyone honestly think Biden won't just be pulled around like a puppet by people within the Democrats if he becomes President. I mean the guy is clearly being controlled and run in a very specific way during his campaign.

The only insane part here is that people like Lanny are still naïve enough to believe that electing Biden will change anything.

I remember the same thing being said when Kerry was running for President.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:13 PM   #4339
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Corporatism is preferable to fascism, that's my hot take.
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Old 09-28-2020, 01:26 PM   #4340
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1310584937356103686
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