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Old 10-20-2018, 11:00 AM   #41
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They need be able to focus on both at the same time, as I don't think better team defense will fix Smith's issues, just mitigate them. I think with your #1 goalie, stability is key. Even if that stability means a lower overall average, you're better off with a consistent product. With Smith, every night is a surprise. It's hard to create team strategy around that, and I assume also really erodes team morale after a while.
He's a middling goalie. They have good games and bad, great and terrible. They give up terrible goals some nights.

But I don't think the plan in acquiring Smith was to have a top five guy. It was a team with a great blueline that should play good team defence and have a guy making the saves behind that.

It hasn't happened that way.

The team needs to play better because I don't think they're going to find a better option mid season.
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Old 10-20-2018, 11:01 AM   #42
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The Flames defense is spotty at best however their starter has been very average.
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Old 10-20-2018, 11:24 AM   #43
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Interestingly enough that game in Denver was their best showing yet this season in what they gave up. 11 in the game in all situations, that's followed by the two Vancouver games at 11 and 12.

Smith actually has a higher high danger save percentage to date than Rittich (79.31 to 77.78)
Colour me confused, but if Rittich has let in 2 goals total, and he had 11 high danger chances against in his one start, even if he had zero in the Blues game he would have an .818 SV percentage in high danger situations.
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Old 10-20-2018, 11:24 AM   #44
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Lehner interests me. Last year was a down year. He had a 908 in 53 games, but his mental health issues may explain some of that. The two years previous he had 920 and 924 and in the 920 year, he played 59 games for Buffalo. His career save percentage is 916. That’s not bad. He is young at 27 and he might be able to be had if the NYI embrace a rebuild.
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Old 10-20-2018, 11:25 AM   #45
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He's a middling goalie.
He's been a middling goalie, who's showed signs of being a below average goalie going back to the second half of last year. I know the number don't mean that much this early, but he's ranked 45th (out of 50) in SV% and 43rd in GAA. Middling would be an upgrade right about now.

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The team needs to play better because I don't think they're going to find a better option mid season.
It may not be the long-term solution we all seek, but as of now I think the better option may be the one sitting on the bench.

Unfortunately, this one is on Treliving. He had 3 big issues to fix this off-season. Coaching, scoring depth, and goaltending. He seems to have done a really solid job on the first two, and failed on the 3rd one. Very few teams are perfect in the cap era, but unfortunately it could sink the season of a pretty promising team.

I think at the very least, let's lean more on Rittich. Don't throw him into the deep end of the pool again, but let's see if a more 50/50 type role suits him.
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Old 10-20-2018, 11:33 AM   #46
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I was waiting for this type of thread. Goalies take a long time to develop.

But Gillies. We should see something of an upward trend by now. Looks more like a backup than a future goalie.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:01 PM   #47
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Someone who's 27 and stuck behind a competent NHL starter.

No more Hurricanes.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:01 PM   #48
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Joni Ortio
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:08 PM   #49
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What year is it? Seems like we’ve had the same old back and forth about weak goaltending vs spotty defence since 2013.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:16 PM   #50
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6 ' 6" Magnus Hellberg

https://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-s...p?player=11695

UFA (Group 6)

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/magnus-hellberg
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:16 PM   #51
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New goalie coach before any more goalies please.
I really don't understand blaming the goaltending coach.

Hiller put up his best season in three seasons upon arriving to Calgary.

Smith's season last year was arguably his best since 2012.

At the highest level I think almost all the responsibility is on the players to perform. Stories on the coaches make for a good story, but I feel like its mostly just a story.

Like when Gary Roberts got hugely popular after Stamkos broke out. Nothing against Gary Roberts, but Stamkos is the one with the talent. Lots of scrubs attend Biosteel camp and never amount to anything.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:43 PM   #52
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I really don't understand blaming the goaltending coach.

Hiller put up his best season in three seasons upon arriving to Calgary.

Smith's season last year was arguably his best since 2012..
Goalies playing on questionable defensive teams moved to us and saw upticks in their save percentage because of Giordano. Then the more time they spent with Sigalet and his play-on-the-goalline philosophy the worse they got at routine saves. See also Chad Johnson.

Elliott the lone outlier but he also came from the Blues who were in the WCF the year prior.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:53 PM   #53
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I'm not interested in blaming goaltenders until they clean up the ten bell chance rates that they're currently putting on display.

15 more last night at five on five, 16 overall.

Last year the 15th best high danger goaltender stopped 83% of these chances over the course of a season which would be ... drumroll please ... 12 in a game where you give up 16, meaning four go in.

I can pretty much guarantee you Peters is looking at the 16 high danger chances and not his goaltender this morning.

The 10 best team in the league last year in high danger chance surrender gave up 955 over the season for 11.8 per game.

This year the Flames are ranked 28th in the NHL for high danger chances against per 60 minutes.

Smith isn't the issue. He could bail them out more sure as his high danger save rate is at 79.8%, but he's ranked 16th in that stat, and I have him as a middle NHL goaltender.
Imo, you aren't going to get that with this roster especially with hamonic out

Monahan is not going to become a pavelski level 2 way player, neither will dube or jankowski this year. Gaudreau is limited defensively. A defense with 3 rookies and Brodie isn't going to blow the doors off defensively and you can't play the backlund line 26 minutes a night so...the ten Bell chances are something we are going to have to live with this season.

If it means getting a goalie who does a better but not perfect job of bailing the squad out for 5 of those ten Bell chances rather than 2 or 3, the team needs to be looking at that.

The roster, though vastly improved, has defensive limitations. The goal should be acquiring a goalie that can work within those limitations and give the potent offense a chance to score their way out of 4-3 games.

Last edited by Flash Walken; 10-20-2018 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:01 PM   #54
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Imo, you aren't going to get that with this roster especially with hamonic out

Monahan is not going to become a pavelski level 2 way player, neither will dube or jankowski this year. Gaudreau is limited defensively. A defense with 3 rookies and Brodie isn't going to blow the doors off defensively and you can't play the backlund line 26 minutes a night so...the ten Bell chances are something we are going to have to live with this season.

If it means getting a goalie who does a better but not perfect job of bailing the squad out for 5 of those ten Bell chances rather than 2 or 3, the team needs to be looking at that.

The roster, though vastly improved, has defensive limitations. The goal should be acquiring a goalie that can work within those limitations and give the potent offense a chance to score their way out of 4-3 games.
What are you giving up to get a better than average starter? Are we skipping next year’s draft again too?
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:05 PM   #55
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What are you giving up to get a better than average starter? Are we skipping next year’s draft again too?
Yeah, if it means getting a bonafide starter signed through the years the core group and additions are signed for.

Brodie + Bennett + 1st
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:14 PM   #56
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Goalies playing on questionable defensive teams moved to us and saw upticks in their save percentage because of Giordano. Then the more time they spent with Sigalet and his play-on-the-goalline philosophy the worse they got at routine saves. See also Chad Johnson.

Elliott the lone outlier but he also came from the Blues who were in the WCF the year prior.
Elliot and Hillier came from better defensive teams than the Flames so that part of your argument is incorrect.

I don't think one player can single-handily improve a goaltenders save percentage. That seems like a poor argument at best.

Chad Johnson was a back up coming off of one good season in a 1A-1B role. He hasn't recovered since leaving Calgary.

None of the guys with the exception of Mike Smith that Treliving has acquired were bonafide number 1 guys. I giuess you could say Hiller was that guy, but his career was in decline for a few years before leaving Anaheim and was pushed out by younger, better goalies. He was 33 by the time he left Calgary. Lots of journeymen type goalies are done at that age.

Mike Smith has been around the league for a long time, and been exposed to different goalie coaches. We know he doesn't have a problem with publicly calling out teammates.

If Jordan Sigalet was just a terrible goaltending coach, you don't think that Mike Smith wouldn't have made some noise about that to management?

I think the Flames have gotten about the level of goaltending one would expect based on the quality of the players they have brought in over the last few years. Sigalet seems like a scapegoat to me.

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Old 10-20-2018, 01:26 PM   #57
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If the Flames acquire a goalie, it should be someone who is one the right side of 30. I don't care if he cost a lot more.

Hiller, Smith, and Elliott were all arguably fine during their first years on the Flames.
But all of them were simply too old to progress with the team.

As for Sigalet, he doesn't seem to be a good goaltending coach. But who knows. We have almost nothing to work of to prove that.
My main problem with Sigalet is that every goalie he has coached did not progressive much, if at all. The Flames desperately need to improve their goalie development. It's been a problem since the 80s.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:38 PM   #58
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Yeah, if it means getting a bonafide starter signed through the years the core group and additions are signed for.

Brodie + Bennett + 1st
Well thank Christ you are not our GM.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:42 PM   #59
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Elliot and Hillier came from better defensive teams than the Flames so that part of your argument is incorrect.

2013-14 Hiller with the Ducks had an expected SV% of 90.93 and posted a 91.1
2014-15 Hiller with the Flames had an expected SV% of 91.61 and posted a 91.74


I would say the 2014-15 Flames were a better "defensive" team than the Ducks, who btw still had Nick Bonino instead of Ryan Kesler as their shutdown center and a very green blue line.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:52 PM   #60
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This Adam Reideborn guy has great stats.

https://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-s...p?player=24819
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