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Old 10-19-2018, 02:38 AM   #41
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Hamilton was a productive but one dimensional offensive defense man who benefitted dramatically from playing with 2 Norris calibre d partners, Chara and Gio. Not only has he rarely been the best defensrman on his line, he has been sheltered by guys who are beasts.

In 15-16 he played with Russell most, about 40 pct of the time at even strength and was a team D worst -14 compared to Russell’s -4. Gully then stapled him to Gio over 70 percent of the time.

Hanifin was paired mainly with Trevor van Riemsdyk. Hanifin could carry his pairing

That is a pretty decent difference. People are trying to compare them apples to apples, and Hanifin isn’t playing with anyone near the calibre of Gio (or Chara)

Huge trade win. Have said it before and will say it again.

Also, no Freddie. ( Seriously Tre, wtf was that? haha )
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:28 AM   #42
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For now there's no doubt in my mind the flames come out the winners in this trade, but, the wildcard could be Adam Fox
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:39 AM   #43
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Seems like every point I thought of has been made, and quite a few more. Great stuff to read

I'll just echo Enoch from an even more personal POV; I just like Hanifins game more. I was never as frustrated with Hamilton as many here, I thought he was fine and I even liked his weird personality (or what I saw of it.)

But for what ever reasons, I just didn't enjoy watching him play as much as I like many other Flames, and not as much as I like Hanifin. At the end of the day, hockey is entertainment, and any trade that makes the team more entertaining for me is a trade I like.

(I still miss Ferland though, even if Lindholm seems great. I reserve the right to not be completely rational as a fan )
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:25 AM   #44
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I find myself disagreeing with peoples' take on Hamilton defensively. He wasn't Gio, but he was a rock solid #2 who broke the cycle early and moved the puck out quickly. Where he ran into problems was simply that he didn't have a great defensive stick or anything resembling shot blocking technique. How many times did teams score an empty net goal right THROUGH Hamilton because he only played the body? Likewise, the problem wasn't that he got beat to the middle all the time, but the very occasional time he did, he magnified the issue by using his arms instead of his feet and usually ended up in the box.

But the idea that Gio carried him is a bit off. Hamilton did his part. I had way more comfort seeing that pair match up to top lines than I would Gio-Hamonic or Gio-Stone, despite peoples' love of these tier IV and V defensive defensemen.

As for Hanifin, he's been okay but people might be overrating him in classic piss-on-former-player fashion. Hanifin-Stone nor Hanifin-Andersson have not been a better pairing than Russell-Hamilton was and this is a more talented team than 2016. I do however like Hanifin's compete level more and I expect fewer egregious penalties or empty netters right through his stick. Hamilton struggled to carry Jokipakka, sure... but Jokipakka was not an NHLer.

Personally to me the biggest thing is that we have Brodie back on the right side though. He's just better there. I am happy with Hanifin as he is a solid middle pair defenseman with upside but let's not pretend we traded away a sieve and got back a superstar. It seems to be very close talentwise. I too miss Ferland and I don't see our top line being as solid 5 on 5 as they were last year. Lindholm with his handedness and face off skill helps our PK and PP so you have to give to get, though.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:58 AM   #45
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For now there's no doubt in my mind the flames come out the winners in this trade, but, the wildcard could be Adam Fox
I don't see Fox signing with Carolina. He plans on finishing school so why would he not just wait a couple months and sign wherever he wants? Combine that with the fact that he won't see any room on that Canes D group to easily break in and I think it highly unlikely they can sign him. I would bet he ends up signing with the Rangers, just a feeling.
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:34 AM   #46
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I love the Hanifin trade but I wonder if Hamilton would have been enough of a chip to get Nylander.


He absolutely would have been.

And I still would have absolutely traded for Lindholm + Hanifin ahead of Nylander.
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:38 AM   #47
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I think without a doubt Hanifin is better in his own end. One of the things you never saw with Hamilton was his usage on the pk. You would think a bigger body with reach and skating ability would be a fit. That just wasn't the case, even though he was paired with Gio as the first pairing, when it came to killing penalties he wasn't on the ice.

All last season Hamilton was on for around 40 minutes. Hanifin also wasn't used a ton last year, but this year he is alead at 14 mins which is top 4 minutes in Calgary where Hamilton is 6th in Carolina.
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:57 AM   #48
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I was disappointed when Hamilton was traded. Was a big fan of his even with his supposed off-ice issues. I'm a big fan of 50pts Dmen. Those are the rarest players off all. More so then PPG forwards or even elite goalies. There's only a handful of Dmen who can put up points like that, and the Flames had one.

But at the end of the day, we have to look at the big picture. IMO Hanafin seems to so far do a much better job of stabilizing the back-end then Hamilton ever did. Hanafin also seems to have a much higher compete level. I thought there would be some growing pains with him being so young and how some 'Canes fans always brought up his defensive deficiencies. The season is still young, but I haven't seen much of that...at all. As someone mentioned, you rarely notice him all game long. Then he starts skating and you realize we have a solid player on the back.

Both players who came over have changed the scope of the team and been better fits then I could ever have thought at this point.
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Old 10-19-2018, 08:25 AM   #49
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Right from game 1 I've been really impressed with Hanifin's skating ability, calm presence, defensive awareness, puck movement and physicality.

Really the only negative I've noticed is that he has trouble getting the puck on net. He seems to struggle to find shooting lanes and he also needs to speed up his release. If he does he will be an elite level defenseman.
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Old 10-19-2018, 08:29 AM   #50
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In simpler terms, I look at the trade as this - Dougie was responsible for XX goals a year being scored on us. We all saw him give up soft goals OR stupid penalties that led to a power play that scored a goal on us. He also was responsible for us scoring XX goals. Whether it was with a great pass, breakout or shot. In the end, I'd rather have Hanafin's stable play night in and night out. Not as many goals scored by the opposition, and not as many scored by us. It all works out in the wash. Cheaper and younger with less stress, I'd take Hannifin every time
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Old 10-19-2018, 08:37 AM   #51
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I've watched Hanafins highlite reels and he likes getting pucks towards the net for deflection more than on net ....don't know if that's because he doesn't have a great shot and he knows it or if he's just better doing it the other way. I like that he's patient with it and doesn't just try blasting pucks into shinpads.
He is going to be good for us.
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Old 10-19-2018, 08:59 AM   #52
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Hanafin's... Hannifin
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Hanafins
Come on guys. His name is right in the thread title.


edit- I just noticed a few more before you. Clearly this is our new Monahan situation.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:14 AM   #53
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One thing that really jumps out to me is that Dougie never led a pairing. He always succeeded with Gio, but he wasn't confidence inspiring with anyone else.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:27 AM   #54
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I've said it before, but I see Hanifin as a Bouwmeester type defenceman. Excellent skater, good size, plays a low risk game, reliable but not a game breaker. We were all very excited when the Flames acquired Bouwmeester, then once the honeymoon was over, for whatever reason, many Flames fans wanted him moved. I'm not really sure why this was, Bouwmeester didn't bother me that much, the Flames were stinkers regardless. But I can't help but wonder if the same thing will happen to Hanifin.

As for Bouwmeester, he kind of topped out development wise around 23/24, so assuming Hanifin is on a similar trajectory, he is likely pretty close to his upside. Now I could be wrong and Hanifin might have another gear, but based on his playing style, I simply don't think it will move the needle much. He'll get more reliable and be a dependable top-four, but don't expect him to suddenly emerge as a Karlsson-type game breaker.

Hamilton on the other hand reminds me of Brent Burns, with all the same personality/development quirks that Burns had as a young player. Hamilton isn't as physical as Burns, but otherwise plays a very similar style and can be a game breaker. There were multiple games last season where Hamilton basically forced a win, that's a pretty rare thing in the modern NHL. Developmentally I don't think Hamilton's ceiling is as high as Burns', since Burns has that extra physical dimension to his game, but Hamilton can still top out as a top ten defenceman in the league, whereas Hanifin will be a much less flashy top-four.

Hamilton was the best player in the deal and will likely remain so.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:28 AM   #55
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I don’t spend every shift yelling at Hanafin like I did Hamilton so my game watching experience is much better and I don’t need to drink as heavily to survive watching him, so Hanafin >>>> Hamilton
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:29 AM   #56
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I'm a big fan of Hanifin.

Stepping back a bit.....BT wanted/needed to trade Hamilton. The criteria for players back seems pretty obvious....young, right shooting winger/center to shore up the right side. AND....don't blow a whole in the blue line, so some current playing solid defenseman had to come back.

I looked around at every team....there is not one situation that offered players that fit those parameters without the defenseman coming back being subpar or probably unattainable if included alongside the young forward (either older or 4th/5th spot type upside). The only ones i could find were with Ducks....taking one of their blue liners (montour) and Rakell. But that seems again unattainable. Another was LA....Toffoli and Ledue. And Minny...Dumba and Coyle. Not enough upside there.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:35 AM   #57
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I've said it before, but I see Hanifin as a Bouwmeester type defenceman. Excellent skater, good size, plays a low risk game, reliable but not a game breaker. We were all very excited when the Flames acquired Bouwmeester, then once the honeymoon was over, for whatever reason, many Flames fans wanted him moved. I'm not really sure why this was, Bouwmeester didn't bother me that much, the Flames were stinkers regardless. But I can't help but wonder if the same thing will happen to Hanifin.

As for Bouwmeester, he kind of topped out development wise around 23/24, so assuming Hanifin is on a similar trajectory, he is likely pretty close to his upside. Now I could be wrong and Hanifin might have another gear, but based on his playing style, I simply don't think it will move the needle much. He'll get more reliable and be a dependable top-four, but don't expect him to suddenly emerge as a Karlsson-type game breaker.

Hamilton on the other hand reminds me of Brent Burns, with all the same personality/development quirks that Burns had as a young player. Hamilton isn't as physical as Burns, but otherwise plays a very similar style and can be a game breaker. There were multiple games last season where Hamilton basically forced a win, that's a pretty rare thing in the modern NHL. Developmentally I don't think Hamilton's ceiling is as high as Burns', since Burns has that extra physical dimension to his game, but Hamilton can still top out as a top ten defenceman in the league, whereas Hanifin will be a much less flashy top-four.

Hamilton was the best player in the deal and will likely remain so.
That's a really interesting comparison actually, thanks for that

I don't think you have to worry about the masses turning on Hanifin for that reason though. I think the Bouwmeester fallout was due to high expectations met with more disappointment. On a roster that included Moss, Mayers, White, Pardy and Higgins... we were really excited to have a talented player come on board.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:41 AM   #58
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I love the Hanifin trade but I wonder if Hamilton would have been enough of a chip to get Nylander.
Rather have Lindholm and Hanifin than just Nylander
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:42 AM   #59
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That's a really interesting comparison actually, thanks for that

I don't think you have to worry about the masses turning on Hanifin for that reason though. I think the Bouwmeester fallout was due to high expectations met with more disappointment. On a roster that included Moss, Mayers, White, Pardy and Higgins... we were really excited to have a talented player come on board.
If I were to guess, one of the reasons Bouwmesster's appeal dropped so much was that much of the offensive production he had in Florida effectively disappeared in Calgary. But he also went from pretty cushy minutes in Florida to being the eventual de facto #1 in Calgary. Hanifin will hopefully benefit from not having to be "the guy" on the blueline any time soon.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:44 AM   #60
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Rather have Lindholm and Hanifin than just Nylander
I might just rather have Lindholm period depending on Nylander's eventual contract.

Lindholm at under 5M long-term is great.
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