11-21-2019, 01:52 PM
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#201
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
^ ^ FDW:
GM: “Johnny, I’m not paying you to skate in the corner and take sharp angle shots”
Coach: “Johnny, you keep getting funnelled in to the corner. We have identified why that is happening. In this situation, try this instead: ...”
Get the coach to do something
Profit
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Lol. It’s as easy as that right? Just tell him to do things different?
What the hell do you think they’re doing?
At what point do you start to wonder if Gaudreau really listens and absorbs anything our coaches say? That’s where I’m at with him. Some players just aren’t very coachable. There’s enough smoke we’ve got to be wondering if that’s the fire.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 11-21-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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11-21-2019, 01:52 PM
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#202
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Jah Chalgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Another poster doing mental gymnastics trying to blame anybody but Gaudreau for Gaudreau’s crap play.
Gaudreau isn’t making smart plays with puck
Gaudreau isn’t hard on the puck
Gaudreau isn’t winning any battles
Gaudreau doesn’t look dangerous either shooting or passing
But let’s just ignore all that and make it about Bednar and Peters and then we won’t have to face the sad reality that our star player is at the heart of the problem.
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To add:
Gaudreau isn't playing with any kind of pace right now. He was most dangerous on zone entries forcing d-men to back off because he was flying in and was hard to read. Now it's just a lazy/scared zone entry, curl around look for a pass then get smothered by the other team until he runs out of options and turns it over.
It has to be a confidence thing. What's troubling though is that instead of working hard to fight through the skid, his effort looks pathetic at times.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champion
The Oilers don't need a Giordano. They have a glut of him.
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11-21-2019, 01:54 PM
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#203
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfire
He took another step forward and adjusted. He needs to adjust again. If your style gets figured out once, it can certainly happen again, and you need to respond accordingly which he hasn't really this time around.
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I am wondering what those actual adjustments were? His playing style did not drastically change when he went from 64 to 78 to 61 to 84 to 99 points.
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11-21-2019, 01:55 PM
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#204
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Taking a while to get to 5000
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Probably hiding/protecting an injury
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11-21-2019, 02:00 PM
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#205
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Lol. It’s as easy as that right? Just tell him to do things different?
What the hell do you think they’re doing?
At what point do you start to wonder if Gaudreau really listens and absorbs anything our coaches say? That’s where I’m at with him. Some players just aren’t very coachable. There’s enough smoke we’ve got to be wondering if that’s the fire.
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But in other posts you are stating how hard it is for the fans to know whether a coach is doing a good job. How are you able to conclude whether a player is coachable? That seems a lot harder to discern from afar IMO. We don't know how he is being coached, what he is being told, the state of his physical health etc.
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11-21-2019, 02:10 PM
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#206
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
But in other posts you are stating how hard it is for the fans to know whether a coach is doing a good job. How are you able to conclude whether a player is coachable? That seems a lot harder to discern from afar IMO. We don't know how he is being coached, what he is being told, the state of his physical health etc.
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We can’t conclude we can merely guess or speculate. I was not making a conclusion. I was hazarding a guess based on how he’s playing vs how we know the coaches want him to play.
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11-21-2019, 02:19 PM
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#207
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonage
Probably hiding/protecting an injury
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I don't think so... I think it's more of teams figuring out Gaudreau.
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11-21-2019, 02:25 PM
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#208
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Another poster doing mental gymnastics trying to blame anybody but Gaudreau for Gaudreau’s crap play.
Gaudreau isn’t making smart plays with puck
Gaudreau isn’t hard on the puck
Gaudreau isn’t winning any battles
Gaudreau doesn’t look dangerous either shooting or passing
But let’s just ignore all that and make it about Bednar and Peters and then we won’t have to face the sad reality that our star player is at the heart of the problem.
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Seriously? Of course he is to blame. How did you interpret otherwise? He needs to adapt it is on him as he runs the offence the team lives and dies by him we dont have anyone else that can make plays like him. You cant tell me you don't see him do the same ####ty button hook move every game and cross seam pass to the slot to Monahan or Lindholm. Well it doesn't work no more he needs to pick it up and adapt his game because nobody else can carry it in and distribute like he can. We don't have the personnel, but Peters has no answers either im not happy with either.
Last edited by Psytic; 11-21-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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11-21-2019, 02:27 PM
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#209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein
To add:
Gaudreau isn't playing with any kind of pace right now. He was most dangerous on zone entries forcing d-men to back off because he was flying in and was hard to read. Now it's just a lazy/scared zone entry, curl around look for a pass then get smothered by the other team until he runs out of options and turns it over.
It has to be a confidence thing. What's troubling though is that instead of working hard to fight through the skid, his effort looks pathetic at times.
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Confidence in
- himself?
or
- in him know what his teammates are going to be doing, and their confidence in turn that he can find them
I often go back to the old adage “under pressure, you sink to the level of your preparation”
To play with pace, you need all 5 guys playing with pace. That means they know where to go and you know where to find them.
There is an argument that the blender, while used to search for short term chemistry, may not exactly help develop the line chemistry that comes with familiarity.
I see it as not just the player effort, there are several layers of coaching to look at. Strategy and motivation are a couple.
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11-21-2019, 02:34 PM
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#210
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Lifetime Suspension
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Top players don't get "figured out" the best you can do is try and contain the damage.
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11-21-2019, 02:56 PM
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#211
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
Top players don't get "figured out" the best you can do is try and contain the damage.
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If that's the case then perhaps Johnny isn't as much of a top player as we thought.
But I would disagree with the premise. At certain moments both AO and Crosby had people saying that they had "lost it" or that their downward trajectory was starting.
They both have a mindset of continuous improvement to stay ahead of their competitors.
Adjust and readjust.
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11-21-2019, 03:05 PM
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#212
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First Line Centre
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Johnny should work on his shot/release
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11-21-2019, 03:26 PM
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#213
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Jah Chalgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
Confidence in
- himself?
or
- in him know what his teammates are going to be doing, and their confidence in turn that he can find them
I often go back to the old adage “under pressure, you sink to the level of your preparation”
To play with pace, you need all 5 guys playing with pace. That means they know where to go and you know where to find them.
There is an argument that the blender, while used to search for short term chemistry, may not exactly help develop the line chemistry that comes with familiarity.
I see it as not just the player effort, there are several layers of coaching to look at. Strategy and motivation are a couple.
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Just like with anything it's probably a bit of column A and a bit of column B but his poor play this season is mostly on him and not Monahan/Lindholm/Peters
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champion
The Oilers don't need a Giordano. They have a glut of him.
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11-21-2019, 03:29 PM
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#214
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
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Zadorov: Hey guys here is Johnny carrying in the puck. Should I back off even though he isn't that fast this year and let him button hook me and pass off to Monahan who is sitting there like they did all last year or should I just stand him up and force him to dump it in.....
League: ahaaaaaa
Johnny: Crap guess my damage is contained the only thing to do is dump it or rim it around the boards
Peters: ????? But no one else on the team can enter the zone properly and this is why our PP also is no good because we cant get the puck back
Team:????
Brad: ?
Brad gets blame he didn't secure any help this off season. Johnny gets blame he hasn't come up with some new tricks. Peters gets blame he hasn't identified this ultra common move that has now been contained and hasn't sat down with the team to come up with some new zone entry tactics for 5v5 and the PP.
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11-21-2019, 03:30 PM
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#215
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
If that's the case then perhaps Johnny isn't as much of a top player as we thought.
But I would disagree with the premise. At certain moments both AO and Crosby had people saying that they had "lost it" or that their downward trajectory was starting.
They both have a mindset of continuous improvement to stay ahead of their competitors.
Adjust and readjust.
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I don't think we should expect a whole lot of working to continually adapt his game from someone that won't even work on his diet.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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11-21-2019, 03:36 PM
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#216
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
My theory is simple
Teams have figured out how to play Johnny
He hasn’t figured how to adjust against that
I recall it happened a few years ago with AO and he developed some new weapons and tactics
Sports is about adjusting and readjusting
Can Johnny do that?
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I notice, a lot lately, that if the opposing team clogs up the middle of the ice in the defensive zone, JG will eventually try a cross ice pass through all of their skates, sticks, legs etc and turn it over. Especially on the PP
Not sure how they figured out how to do this.
__________________
Pass the bacon.
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11-21-2019, 04:01 PM
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#217
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
We can’t conclude we can merely guess or speculate. I was not making a conclusion. I was hazarding a guess based on how he’s playing vs how we know the coaches want him to play.
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Agree with that. So I wouldn't call fans analysis of coaching "worthless drivel worth nothing at all" while at the same time admitting to speculation as to how coachable someone is.
Some people want to focus in on Gaudreau
Some on Peters
Some on Treliving
Its entirely possible none of them are doing their jobs very well. Some might be easier to upgrade than others though.
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11-21-2019, 04:09 PM
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#218
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Franchise Player
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Worth mentioning that Johnny signed for 9.25% of the cap; Tkachuk 8.59%. If Tkachuk's contract were evenly distributed real dollars (7,7,7) he would still almost certainly take home less money overall than Johnny did in his first year or two.
Tkachuk was smart to backload his deal not only for QO, but because barring some crazy HRR windfall (say a Leafs vs. Blackhawks 7 game SCF) this will be the worst year ever for escrow (in terms of permanent withholding). Unlikely to improve next year, but there is a lot of big salary coming off the books in 2021.
I'd still bet Tkachuk has less total cash deposited after 3 years than Johnny did for his first 3.
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11-21-2019, 05:02 PM
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#219
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
I don't think we should expect a whole lot of working to continually adapt his game from someone that won't even work on his diet.
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How do you know whether or not he has worked on his diet and/or fitness?
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11-21-2019, 05:14 PM
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#220
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Agree with that. So I wouldn't call fans analysis of coaching "worthless drivel worth nothing at all" while at the same time admitting to speculation as to how coachable someone is.
Some people want to focus in on Gaudreau
Some on Peters
Some on Treliving
Its entirely possible none of them are doing their jobs very well. Some might be easier to upgrade than others though.
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Well the player has some pretty easy numbers you can pull and analyze. He had the same coach as last year, and has for the most part played with the same players.
I'm having a heck of a time coming up with why Gaudreau's lack of chance generation this year can be blamed on coaching, but as you say ... I'm not on the inside and can't say for sure.
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