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Old 09-28-2020, 06:41 PM   #241
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Regardless if you are for or against this proposal, I think we can all agree that Sean Chu is SO RIDICULOUSLY STUPID. This is one of 15 people who votes on The City's multi-billion dollar budget, folks.

@seanchucalgary
Keep this in mind. 50 to 30km/h is a 40% decrease, which means a min 40% INCREASE in time. Would you like to spend +40% more time on the roads? And 40% more emissions increase too! To the Green & anti-car advocates, you can’t “suck & blow at the same time”. #yyc #yyccc #calgary

https://twitter.com/seanchucalgary/s...91803707305984
We really should be increasing the speed limit to help fight climate change, I guess?
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Old 09-28-2020, 07:00 PM   #242
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We really should be increasing the speed limit to help fight climate change, I guess?
Among other things!

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Old 09-28-2020, 07:35 PM   #243
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All for it. But it cannot be where we stop - it must be a precursor to retrofitting and traffic calming such that 40km/hr is a natural design speed for residential roads. Speed limit is necessary, but not sufficient. Can't and shouldn't rely primarily on enforcement.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:04 PM   #244
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Doubt it really does anything meaningful really. Or should we be prepared for cops staking out every residential street in the city?

Gotta think there are more important civic issues to focus on.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:41 PM   #245
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So...pedestrians are exempt from personal responsibility and can just wander onto the roads at will?
Yes. The streets used to be for everyone.

You can still find places like this today, and frankly they are just plain better. North America bought into the propaganda that cars = freedom and happiness, and our urban planning has utterly suffered to actually serve humans living in cities because of it.

Some places bought into the American corporate manufactured ideal for a time, but ultimately realized it sucks:



Before:


After:


Before:


After:


If you drive streets like this, yes you expect pedestrians to wander onto the road at will.

Last edited by Bill Bumface; 09-28-2020 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:47 PM   #246
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I like the appeal to emotion of black and white photo contrasted with colour.

I also like how none of your super hip urban utopian dreamworld pics display -30 and foot deep snow for 7-8 months/ year.

Lastly, we made our bed. We can’t recreate a city like what your picturing. So let us drive our cars a normal speed for the love of god.

Cars are actually amazing. They get me places about 100x faster (well, I guess now 70x faster for no reason but okay) than if I walked or went and acquired this pandemic virus on public transit.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:08 PM   #247
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I like the appeal to emotion of black and white photo contrasted with colour.

I also like how none of your super hip urban utopian dreamworld pics display -30 and foot deep snow for 7-8 months/ year.

Lastly, we made our bed. We can’t recreate a city like what your picturing. So let us drive our cars a normal speed for the love of god.

Cars are actually amazing. They get me places about 100x faster (well, I guess now 70x faster for no reason but okay) than if I walked or went and acquired this pandemic virus on public transit.
Sorry for posting black and white pictures from an era when they were common? Also please note one "car era" picture was colour as well.

We get -30 on average 4 days a year. We have "foot deep snow" for a handful of days.

Look! It works in winter!


The Amsterdam photos are proof we don't need to "lie in our bed" as they ran in both modes without knocking down buildings.

I don't see why on certain roads, pedestrians can't take precedence. It works great on Stephen Ave. Why isn't it ok to expect kids to be playing on residential streets and to just drive accordingly?
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:13 PM   #248
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I think mainly just because I don’t want to spend my entire life in my car but otherwise I’m all for it.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:17 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee View Post
I like the appeal to emotion of black and white photo contrasted with colour.

I also like how none of your super hip urban utopian dreamworld pics display -30 and foot deep snow for 7-8 months/ year.

Lastly, we made our bed. We can’t recreate a city like what your picturing. So let us drive our cars a normal speed for the love of god.

Cars are actually amazing. They get me places about 100x faster (well, I guess now 70x faster for no reason but okay) than if I walked or went and acquired this pandemic virus on public transit.
Also can we admit there is a grave difference between Stephen Ave & a typical suburban boulevard.

People keep citing these BS machinations of walkable communities and applying them to places with 2.5' wide sidewalks separated from the roads by 4' that people commute through for a kilometer. Even if those communities are walkable the interaction with traffic is just a completely different thing.

If there are some very specific roads that need to go down to 30 or 40 maybe that's something to look at, but I still generally think speed limits are a terrible idea. There needs to be some other more effective method of traffic enforcement that isn't so easily corrupted for the purposes of generating fines and doing something to prove we have done something.

This is where the changes will be felt, and this is where the enforcement will happen. Nothing like the hipster European utopia
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9766...7i13312!8i6656

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Old 09-28-2020, 11:25 PM   #250
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Amsterdam is 3.5x more dense than Calgary, this stuff is dumb to even compare. It's like asking why LA can't be NY? If you want to walk everywhere move somewhere you can. I like parks more than people, so I choose to live near those and drive everywhere else.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:31 PM   #251
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Those are excellent examples of residential roads in Calgary.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:37 PM   #252
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How much of your commutes are you all spending on residential roads?
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:42 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Bill Bumface View Post
Yes. The streets used to be for everyone.

You can still find places like this today, and frankly they are just plain better. North America bought into the propaganda that cars = freedom and happiness, and our urban planning has utterly suffered to actually serve humans living in cities because of it.

Some places bought into the American corporate manufactured ideal for a time, but ultimately realized it sucks:



Before:


After:


Before:


After:


If you drive streets like this, yes you expect pedestrians to wander onto the road at will.
So how many people get hit by these 'at-grade' rail systems in their intensely crowded metropolitan areas? I dont even see any safety features. I presume the trolleys at least ring a bell or something.

But yeah, I guess 'times havent changed.'

I think you're proving my point. We need better pedestrians.
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:46 PM   #254
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Amsterdam is 3.5x more dense than Calgary, this stuff is dumb to even compare. It's like asking why LA can't be NY? If you want to walk everywhere move somewhere you can. I like parks more than people, so I choose to live near those and drive everywhere else.
That was part of the point. LA is a hell hole because they planned the whole thing around the car. Luckily NYC already had some critical mass in sanity because it was developed earlier.
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Old 09-29-2020, 12:02 AM   #255
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Those are excellent examples of residential roads in Calgary.

But who is driving 50kph on residential streets in NY or LA anyway?
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Old 09-29-2020, 12:09 AM   #256
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That was part of the point. LA is a hell hole because they planned the whole thing around the car. Luckily NYC already had some critical mass in sanity because it was developed earlier.
There are plenty of people of who think NYC is a hell hole too because of its present density and resultant high cost of living, let alone if motorized transport in the form of buses, trains and yes cars hadn't allowed huge numbers of people to no longer have to live near where they work.



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Old 09-29-2020, 01:34 AM   #257
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What was going on in 1971 that saw 3300 people killed on streets in Amsterdam? I'm not sure Europeans are cut out for driving unless it's a race. I think if we killed even a proportional amount of people here we might have a point.



Also, people in Amsterdam average 2.5 km's a day on the bike. That shrinks my world a bit much. I couldn't even find a 7-11 to hang out at 1.25 kms from here.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:14 AM   #258
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Lastly, we made our bed. We can’t recreate a city like what your picturing. So let us drive our cars a normal speed for the love of god.

Cars are actually amazing. They get me places about 100x faster (well, I guess now 70x faster for no reason but okay) than if I walked or went and acquired this pandemic virus on public transit.

Cars are amazing until the property tax assessments come. There seems to be a high correlation between people who bitch most about costs and taxes and people who support the prioritization of the most costly public infrastructure to build and maintain per user.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:28 AM   #259
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The calling this a honey pot for fines doesn’t make sense.

For it to be a honey pot one would have to believe they are out of existing honey pots to use and require new locations because compliance is so good at all the existing ones. Since this is not the case there is no fine revenue incentive for this change.

If they wanted to increase fine revenue you would just increase the number of locations with photo radar now.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:32 AM   #260
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If they wanted to increase fine revenue you would just increase the number of locations with photo radar now.
In fact, it's going to be difficult to impossible to enforce any new speed limits on most residential streets. They're not going to park a photo radar in front of Mr. and Mrs. Grundy's house in a suburban crescent or drive.
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