[News] UPD: Coyotes renounce the rights to draft pick Mitchell Miller

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by getbak

And if they didn't know about this before drafting him, it doesn't reflect well on them either. Armstrong doesn't even get a pass for being a new GM because he was the Blues' AGM and Director of Amateur Scouting last season, so he should have known everything about the kid's past.

Armstrong does get a pass though. He wasn't allowed to participate in the 2020 draft. The Blues made that a condition of his hiring.

I think the fault would lie with Ryan Jankowski (uncle to Mark).

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Armstrong does get a pass though. He wasn't allowed to participate in the 2020 draft. The Blues made that a condition of his hiring.

Sureloss. What you should have done when you started this tread is suggest that everyone reads the article from start to finish. Would have cleared up a lot of this. Lol

[Johnhitbox]

If he hasn't shown any tru remorse or apologised for what he did in person. Keep him in the minors for a coupl more years and make him grow up first. Or practice what you preach, and dont sign him. Lessons will be learned for other generations to come.

Sent from my SM-N986W using Tapatalk

[MRCboicgy]

Had I done this kind of crap at 14, I'd have wanted to be sent to Juvie to keep my mom from punishing me....(she'd never let me forget it and I bet I'd still be making it up to whomever I bullied, 20 years after the fact!)



Having said that, being a piece of crap at 14 shouldn't ruin your life, especially if you grow the eff up - it only sounds like this kid hasn't gotten the point. I hope he does, because right now it just sounds like that affluenza case.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If true, it’s more damning of his parents than it is the kid himself in my eyes.

It’s not like the kid is out there paying for his own hockey. If he’s playing hockey, involved in incidents like this and isn’t showing remorse/being sincere in apologizing - I’m sorry, but you’re a #%^* parent for not taking corrective measures (removing him from hockey, for one).

There is an old saying in Chinese, " if you raise your kids without teaching them right from wrong, it's your failure". And I believe, racism and bullying are a learned behaviour. May be the reason his parents didn't take corrective measures was because they see nothing wrong with their kid's behaviour and in some way they are bullies themselves.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I think we need to distinguish from attacking things a 14 year old did and the person he is now.

What he did was terrible, that does not automatically make him a terrible person now. He may have grown and learned from this.

Some of these back and forth posts on here scream witch-hunt. And piling on anyone who defends the concept of change is just as bad.

Seriously, go back and read what cannon7 said. It’s a perfectly reasonable post. But nope, gotta get on that high horse and attack him for defending the possibility that a child could change.


But, we all need to evaluate whether or not this kid has actually changed. That’s a totally separate issue. No one is defending the person he turned into. It’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

[dammage79]

What a horrible kid this clown is. I sincerely hope for nothing but the worst for him. As if the racism wasn't bad enough on its own merit, but torturing and beating and abusing a special needs individual is a full blown next level of awful.

Preying on the weak and defenseless, or worse yet preying on someone's desire to fit in and then use that to do whatever you want to them is especially anger inducing to me.

If he has no remorse now, he never will. And a meal ticket like an NHL career should never be an option for him.

Those kind of actions to me, revoke your ability to earn a stable life from pro sports.

[1qqaaz]

Is 14 really young enough for it to be an excuse?
I'm pretty sure than when I was 5, I knew not to bully disabled people. It takes a special kind of malice to stoop that low.
I agree with those who think a lot of it comes down to bad parenting. The lack of a direct apology is also pretty suspect.

I'm all for giving people second chances, and I hope he does change.
We'll have to see. Prove us wrong.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Seriously, go back and read what cannon7 said. It’s a perfectly reasonable post.

"you all did stupid things when you were 14" is not a perfectly reasonable argument though. There's stupid things that 14 year olds do ... and then there's vile stuff like the things Miller is accused of. I agree with your overall point, but sugarcoating those actions as some "boys will be boys" pisses me off.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by devo22

"you all did stupid things when you were 14" is not a perfectly reasonable argument though. There's stupid things that 14 year olds do ... and then there's vile stuff like the things Miller is accused of. I agree with your overall point, but sugarcoating those actions as some "boys will be boys" pisses me off.

Especially when, as has been posted multiple times, this is a story because he’s been given opportunities to make amends and *allegedly* hasn’t.

Not because he’s a kid who did stupid things when he was younger, apologized, and grew from it.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think we need to distinguish from attacking things a 14 year old did and the person he is now.

What he did was terrible, that does not automatically make him a terrible person now. He may have grown and learned from this.

The interesting thing is it sounds like he has rejected opportunities to make the right kind of apology. Also sounds like he wouldn't talk about it or was not contrite about it in team interviews. So while you may not be able to hold something against a 14 year old, if they're unrepentant at 18... you probably can hold it against them.

[Flamenspiel]

nm.

[burn_this_city]

Hope he never plays a game, if somehow he does, hope he never lives it down and is reminded of it daily.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by devo22

"you all did stupid things when you were 14" is not a perfectly reasonable argument though. There's stupid things that 14 year olds do ... and then there's vile stuff like the things Miller is accused of. I agree with your overall point, but sugarcoating those actions as some "boys will be boys" pisses me off.

No one said anything close to that. He said that while reprehensible, maybe we should evaluate who he is now vs 14 year old him.

You're the one calling it boys will be boys, OP did nothing of the sort. Or is going to Juvie boys will be boys all of a sudden?

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Especially when, as has been posted multiple times, this is a story because he’s been given opportunities to make amends and *allegedly* hasn’t.

Not because he’s a kid who did stupid things when he was younger, apologized, and grew from it.

Especially when, as I mentioned multiple times in my post, we need to distinguish between 14 year old him vs current him.

I was very clear that we need to form opinions based on the current person he is, not who he used to be.

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The interesting thing is it sounds like he has rejected opportunities to make the right kind of apology. Also sounds like he wouldn't talk about it or was not contrite about it in team interviews. So while you may not be able to hold something against a 14 year old, if they're unrepentant at 18... you probably can hold it against them.

Again, I was very clear on this point, see above and my original post.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think we need to distinguish from attacking things a 14 year old did and the person he is now.

What he did was terrible, that does not automatically make him a terrible person now. He may have grown and learned from this.

Some of these back and forth posts on here scream witch-hunt. And piling on anyone who defends the concept of change is just as bad.

Seriously, go back and read what cannon7 said. It’s a perfectly reasonable post. But nope, gotta get on that high horse and attack him for defending the possibility that a child could change.


But, we all need to evaluate whether or not this kid has actually changed. That’s a totally separate issue. No one is defending the person he turned into. It’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

There are a fair share of guttural, reactive posts that step over the line a bit. However, I think most rational posters that are targeting his current character are forming their opinions based on his choice to try and manage the damage rather than seemingly show any genuine measure of remorse and atonement even 4 years after the fact and as a young adult. That's fair criticism, IMO.

And I personally don't think the post was that reasonable as this is not close to normal "kids being kids" stuff.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

No one said anything close to that. He said that while reprehensible, maybe we should evaluate who he is now vs 14 year old him.

You're the one calling it boys will be boys, OP did nothing of the sort. Or is going to Juvie boys will be boys all of a sudden?

Read things over again.

For one, as pointed out, this is about his lack of remorse, lack of apology, and his reported conduct at 18 when confronting the issue. It is not simply about what he did at 14. If he did what he did, and showed that growth instead of the opposite, this is a different conversation despite what he did being no less heinous. Getting on YOUR high horse and pretending everyone is just attacking his actions in isolation is pretty mindless.

And two, canon said "Do you remember being 14? Deny it all you want, but you did stupid things at 14." Sorry, that's some "boys will be boys" nonsense. Stop acting like it isn't. Do you actually think it's reasonable to suggest that being a racist and bullying a disabled person is in-line with the stupid things you did at 14? It sounds typical to you? That, aside from the assertion that a handful of people here probably went to juvie and got a second chance, so this kid should too.

How many people do you know today who went to juvie for assault and were good people by 18? Honest number. And based on that, how many people here do you think did so?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Yamer

There are a fair share of guttural, reactive posts that step over the line a bit. However, I think most rational posters that are targeting his current character are forming their opinions based on his choice to try and manage the damage rather than seemingly show any genuine measure of remorse and atonement even 4 years after the fact and as a young adult. That's fair criticism, IMO.

And I personally don't think the post was that reasonable as this is not close to normal "kids being kids" stuff.

Nobody said this is "kids being kids" you're making that up.

As for rational posters, I was pretty clear in my post that the people not being rational should start. Why is that so hard for people to accept?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Read things over again.

For one, as pointed out, this is about his lack of remorse, lack of apology, and his reported conduct at 18 when confronting the issue. It is not simply about what he did at 14. If he did what he did, and showed that growth instead of the opposite, this is a different conversation despite what he did being no less heinous. Getting on YOUR high horse and pretending everyone is just attacking his actions in isolation is pretty mindless.

And two, canon said "Do you remember being 14? Deny it all you want, but you did stupid things at 14." Sorry, that's some "boys will be boys" nonsense. Stop acting like it isn't. Do you actually think it's reasonable to suggest that being a racist and bullying a disabled person is in-line with the stupid things you did at 14? It sounds typical to you? That, aside from the assertion that a handful of people here probably went to juvie and got a second chance, so this kid should too.

How many people do you know today who went to juvie for assault and were good people by 18? Honest number. And based on that, how many people here do you think did so?

I think it's you who needs to read it over again. I didn't say everyone, I said the specific people attacking a 14 year old. The person he is now deserves every bit of criticism. I didn't say any different and cannon7 didn't say any different. Why are you trying to pretend otherwise?

Also how can you say this is kids being kids in one paragraph and then in the next claim few people actually go to Juvie? That's the opposite of kids being kids. Normal kids don't go to Juvie.

You're all over the place here. I was very specific in my post but you can't help but just lump everything together.

[Monahammer]

This kid's parents (or whoever raised him/has continued to guide his life) are the #### holes in this situation. The kid doesn't get a pass but arguing over how much blame he should catch is somewhat moot. He does not deserve benefit of the doubt at this point.
But his parents are the true villains; they let their kid get away with this his entire life. They raised him and didn't teach him that this isn't behavior that's acceptable. It was incumbent on them to reinforce this in the time since the court case, and they have clearly failed to do so (even potentially trying to dispel his remorse or otherwise bury the case.)

Let's focus our collective upheaval at the Parents of Mitchell.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think it's you who needs to read it over again. I didn't say everyone, I said the specific people attacking a 14 year old. The person he is now deserves every bit of criticism. I didn't say any different and cannon7 didn't say any different. Why are you trying to pretend otherwise?

Also how can you say this is kids being kids in one paragraph and then in the next claim few people actually go to Juvie? That's the opposite of kids being kids. Normal kids don't go to Juvie.

You're all over the place here. I was very specific in my post but you can't help but just lump everything together.

Answer the question.

I don't know how to break it to you but the 14 year old who abused someone and showed zero remorse for it is the 18 year old who just got drafted. They're not actually separate people, so nobody is attacking one or the other, it's the same person.

You keep flailing about with the "nobody said kids will be kids! you're making it up" thing. But please, tell me what this means to you when spoken in relation to someone being racist and abusing/assaulting a disabled person for years on end: "Do you remember being 14? Deny it all you want, but you did stupid things at 14."

How is that sentence relevant to this, at all? Who gives a #### what stupid things we did at 14. For the vast majority, it was no where close to this, so what's the point of saying it?