Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[Jacks]

Time in Auckland, NZ 9:39am.
Little early to be into the sauce.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Time in Auckland, NZ 9:39am.
Little early to be into the sauce.

Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by evman150

I agree. And I'm very aware that's what you were trying to do (though apparently without success).

How do you figure? Aside from a bare assertion about my example being illegal (perhaps revealingly, presented without evidence, though I was almost convinced but your use of the word "assuredly"), you've done nothing to effectively rebut my argument.

Also, he resiled from his original position to a softer one. So... I'm gonna go ahead and call that one a pretty clear success, actually.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

It isn't important. Not being able to pay for the education or health care systems because you are so deeply in debt is what is important.

So at what level does discrimination, ignoring the most vulnerable people in society, and actively rolling back peoples right to privacy, and in many cases safety become important?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

It is comforting to know though, that should the UCP form government, the sun will rise the next day and that equal rights for all Albertan's will continue to be protected by section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, among other things.

Conversely, some will wake up knowing that they are now in more personal danger both emotionally and potentially physically because educators can now expose their sexuality against their will to parents because of religious or discriminatory reasons, which can lead to disastrous and dangerous consequences for individuals and families involved.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by stone hands

source? interesting graph

Alberta Finance's numbers.

Provincial debt in May 2015 vs May 2019 (2019 NDP #'s based on rising royalty revenues). Of course if you take most economists word the actual debt in May 2019 will be much larger than $71 B.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

How do you figure? Aside from a bare assertion about my example being illegal (perhaps revealingly, presented without evidence, though I was almost convinced but your use of the word "assuredly"), you've done nothing to effectively rebut my argument.

Also, he resiled from his original position to a softer one. So... I'm gonna go ahead and call that one a pretty clear success, actually.

Fascinating.

So let me get this straight. You take my comment wildly out of context, proceed to paint me as a social neanderthal by using a logical fallacy incorrectly, and then, when I prove eminently reasonable and don't rise to the bait, you declare victory?



Nothing like cherry picking one post in a series of posts to kick off a nice debate on the internet about who can use a straw man the best. Classic. That's enough here for me. Have fun in this thread, folks. See you after the election.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Fascinating.

So let me get this straight. You take my comment wildly out of context, proceed to paint me as a social neanderthal by using a logical fallacy incorrectly, and then, when I prove eminently reasonable and don't rise to the bait, you declare victory?



Nothing like cherry picking one post in a series of posts to kick off a nice debate on the internet about who can use a straw man the best. Classic. That's enough here for me. Have fun in this thread, folks. See you after the election.

Oof. Someone forgot to logout of their parachute account.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Alberta Finance's numbers.

Provincial debt in May 2015 vs May 2019 (2019 NDP #'s based on rising royalty revenues). Of course if you take most economists word the actual debt in May 2019 will be much larger than $71 B.

thank you, this is exactly why i asked

this is super disingenuous - the graph makes it appear like every government in the history of alberta has only ever racked up 10b in debt while 4 years of ndp is 61b

you can make the ndp look bad already without resorting to extremely misleading graphs

[Ozy_Flame]

Graham Thomson: This campaign is turning into a ‘war of the megaphones’

When Notley appeared before the Senate committee this week to attack C-48, Kenney was twisting the knife, accusing her of hypocrisy.

“Premier Notley was meeting with Justin Trudeau on Nov. 29, 2016, the very day he announced his intent to impose a tanker ban on the West Coast (with Bill C-48),” said Kenney. “She was mugging for the cameras and did not raise one syllable of protest.”

That’s an astonishingly misleading comment. Notley was meeting with Trudeau on Nov. 29, 2016, to celebrate the conditional approval of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion, not to debate Bill C-48.

At the time, Notley rightly felt she had made a major breakthrough for Alberta on the pipeline front and Bill C-48 wouldn’t have interfered with Trans Mountain. But now, with no new pipeline in the ground, Notley has to demonstrate she’s as angry as Kenney and just as willing to shake her fists at the skies.

Because that, in effect, is what Kenney is promising to do: Yell at the clouds.

He has promised to hold a referendum in Alberta against the federal equalization program, join several other provinces in their fight against the federal carbon tax, begin a constitutional challenge against C-69, and turn off the taps to B.C.

A litany of constitutional experts says Kenney will lose every one of his fights.

But if the opinion polls that have Kenney leading in the election campaign are correct, many Albertans don’t believe the experts. Or, they simply want someone as loud and as angry as Kenney picking up a megaphone and broadcasting Alberta’s angst to the rest of the country.

Can't wait to waste taxpayer money doing this, going to be a gas!

I, for one, am readying myself for the Great Quacking of the Placebo Premier.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Oof. Someone forgot to logout of their parachute account.

Nope, this is my one and only, and has been since I joined in 2009.

Thanks for the lively discussion folks.

Enjoy the game tonight!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Fascinating.

So let me get this straight. You take my comment wildly out of context, proceed to paint me as a social neanderthal by using a logical fallacy incorrectly, and then, when I prove eminently reasonable and don't rise to the bait, you declare victory?

I didn't think we were in a fight I could declare victory over. There was no "bait" to rise to. You said something extreme. I attempted to show it was extreme and that you probably didn't mean to make such a broad statement about your political priorities. You then replied that I was right, and that you didn't mean it as a general statement about your position, only that this particular issue under discussion didn't affect your vote. My argument (which was neither a logical fallacy nor used incorrectly) therefore achieved its purpose. That's hardly a slight on you or anything you need to be defensive about.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Can't wait to waste taxpayer money doing this, going to be a gas!

Has somebody dug up a 40 year event Kenny where he has sued himself with taxpayer money?

[MoneyGuy]

I’m voting tomorrow. I have friends running for both the UCP and NDP in my riding. Good thing it’s a secret ballot.

[Corral]

When the Klein regime torched the public sector, wiped out regulatory controls, and reduced royalties in the mid 1990s - there were about 2.5 million residents of Alberta.


The purpose and objective of the Klein revolution was to encourage what became an unsustainable boom in oil sands development over a 20 year period. Lots of new development, but relatively less infrastructure support. Where was the foresight for new pipelines in the early 2000s when it was obvious there would be a transportation problem if all these projects came on line. I'm sure the response internally was 'What Me Worry?"



Walking thru downtown Fort Mac today, and it still feels like the mid-1970s there. Amazing given how much money flowed thru that region, and how little the infrastructure changed. Can say the same thing about a lot of Alberta.



This boom resulted in a population surge to about 4.3 million today - in many cases living with social infrastructure designed for a population of half that amount. Should they form the next government, the UCPers are going to quickly learn that balancing the books in 2020 without a boom and with 4.3 million residents and a social infrastructure deficit (the true legacy of Klein) - isn't nearly as easy as they think it is.


All of that to say, the fact the NDP ran a deficit is of no concern to me.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Corral

All of that to say, the fact the NDP ran a deficit is of no concern to me.

None at all? It seems to me that no matter what your politics, it matters a great deal what the deficit was incurred for.

I mean, even taking your point about Klein, it's not like the NDP got into office and said, "wow, we really need to borrow a bunch of money to catch up on infrastructure that's lagging behind", and went on to spend money to achieve that end. They were borrowing to cover operating expenses. And that's leaving aside the $2.2 billion borrowed on behalf of the balancing pool to address a payable incurred through sheer incompetence.

It just doesn't seem to me to be a reasonable stance to take, unless you can explain why the source of these astronomical debt figures seems to you like good money to spend.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

That was not a straw man. It's a reductio ad absurdum, if anything. You have now failed philosophy 101.

Boring. You are boring.

[Resolute 14]

I'm kind of amused how effective Ezra Levant is at being an agent provocateur. He's got NDP supporters sharing pictures of his "Anne McGrath is a communist" truck all over the place in outrage without actually cluing into the fact that having them share his message while in an outrage is exactly what he wants.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

None at all? It seems to me that no matter what your politics, it matters a great deal what the deficit was incurred for.

I mean, even taking your point about Klein, it's not like the NDP got into office and said, "wow, we really need to borrow a bunch of money to catch up on infrastructure that's lagging behind", and went on to spend money to achieve that end. They were borrowing to cover operating expenses. And that's leaving aside the $2.2 billion borrowed on behalf of the balancing pool to address a payable incurred through sheer incompetence.

It just doesn't seem to me to be a reasonable stance to take, unless you can explain why the source of these astronomical debt figures seems to you like good money to spend.

I don't always (or even often) agree with Corsi, but this is a great post. I am likely to make it to the end of my life without ever voting NDP (even if we reach the singularity...) but I can respect borrowing money to do productive things. Build hospitals, give union employees above market raises, build transit etc. That stuff is all ideologically consistent and has value.

But the power pool fiasco is basically just the NDP incinerating billions of dollars that we all pay back for no productive reason.

[robbie111]

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/former-u...raud-1.4374894

Great, if this is true we are electing one of the most corrupt politicians in Alberta's history. All he needed to do was stay out of his own way and he would have been elected to the leadership of the UCP easily and won a huge landslide in the election. Hopefully the RCMP hauls him off and we get Jean instead.