This is terribly misleading. Volvo is simply saying that all future new vehicles it launches will be electric and hybrid. Existing model lines will carry on with ICE engines available well into the next decade;
It actually isn't. Volvo has traditionally worked off of two-three drive trains and used them throughout their entire lineup. When they make a change, they transition quickly, just like they did with the push-pull super and turbo charging. If they make the commitment to going to with hybrid electric system, they will go that way quickly. Also, Volvo is Chinese owned, and they have mandates to go electric/hybrid, so they will move that way quickly to be in compliance with what they see as their largest market (China). All the head burying in the sand is so sad to watch, especially on the heels of the Alberta economy melting down as a result of the collapse of the price of oil. Keep ignoring the indicators of the changing global energy economy. It hurts only yourselves.
If you eliminate 99% of car accidents do you need 13 airbags in a car? Do you need as strong of frame or as large of crumple zone. Safety will be paramount but the safety is created by the AI not by trying to make up for human failure. Combined with electric engines you might cut the weight of a car in half. Once the steering wheel is gone the design possibilities are endless.
I can ship myself in my bed car and be in Vegas tomorrow.
I am just disagreeing that car ownership will disappear.
It's hard to imagine car ownership disappearing in our culture. Who knows what will play out, but we can be sure that new business models will emerge that will offer new options to consumers and that is the sweet side of capitalism.
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It actually isn't. Volvo has traditionally worked off of two-three drive trains and used them throughout their entire lineup. When they make a change, they transition quickly, just like they did with the push-pull super and turbo charging. If they make the commitment to going to with hybrid electric system, they will go that way quickly. Also, Volvo is Chinese owned, and they have mandates to go electric/hybrid, so they will move that way quickly to be in compliance with what they see as their largest market (China). All the head burying in the sand is so sad to watch, especially on the heels of the Alberta economy melting down as a result of the collapse of the price of oil. Keep ignoring the indicators of the changing global energy economy. It hurts only yourselves.
The fact is they haven't announced they are going to stop using ICE engines so I don't know what that has to do with burying heads in the sand. I'm just stating the facts here as a lot of people seem to be under the assumption that you won't be able to buy an ICE powered Volvo by 2020 which isn't the case.
Pooled vehicles don't REALLY work as well unless they are self driving. That is why companies like Uber & Lyft are pushing towards offering their same service but with the self driving cars.
Either way car sharing is dependent on where you live, and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with owning or not owning a car. If you live & work downtown you could used car sharing to get to work, go to that lunch meeting, etc, etc but still have your own car for the weekend getaway. For many people that would be a lot of more convenient, and possibly even cheaper. How many people on Deerfoot are sitting alone in their vehicle everyday going to work? How efficient is that? Wouldn't it be possible to figure out a self driving car sharing system that gets people to work and home faster and reduces congestion, accidents and numerous other issues that occur during rush hour? At the end of the day an algorithm will be much more efficient for the repetitive task of driving too/from work than a human will be.
I think people are looking at the world the way they know it. The next generation will adapt to the way it is at that time based on what is available and accessible to them. If it is more convenient to use a self driving taxi to get to work everyday, then that is what they will do.
We already have a lot of that and those advantages. It's public transit. At this point it's not AI, so I guess it doesn't check that box, but I think every other advantage of this this already exists for those who prefer that method of transportation.
It's hard to imagine car ownership disappearing in our culture. Who knows what will play out, but we can be sure that new business models will emerge that will offer new options to consumers and that is the sweet side of capitalism.
How many horses do you own (or cows for that matter)?
A little over 100 years ago there were a lot of farriers who were pretty convinced they were secure as could be.
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How many horses do you own (or cows for that matter)?
A little over 100 years ago there were a lot of farriers who were pretty convinced they were secure as could be.
Except cars are vastly superior for travel compared to horses. Ride sharing auto cars are not vastly superior to my own vehicle. I enjoy bringing my dogs to the dog park. Am I going to use a pooled car to do that? People cry if there's a dog somewhere on the same airplane as them I can't imagine a single vehicle.
Except cars are vastly superior for travel compared to horses. Ride sharing auto cars are not vastly superior to my own vehicle. I enjoy bringing my dogs to the dog park. Am I going to use a pooled car to do that? People cry if there's a dog somewhere on the same airplane as them I can't imagine a single vehicle.
I'm a little confused, who is saying you can't have your own vehicle? That 100% of the people will be on a ridesharing plan?
We should be shifting to diversify the economy either way. A world class city like Calgary has a lot to offer other industries. Especially given the infrastructure in place
The truth is and everybody knows it, that Calgary has to take action now to move away from an economy based around fossil fuels. It's unfortunate for many but it's also necessary to survive as a city.
Except cars are vastly superior for travel compared to horses. Ride sharing auto cars are not vastly superior to my own vehicle. I enjoy bringing my dogs to the dog park. Am I going to use a pooled car to do that? People cry if there's a dog somewhere on the same airplane as them I can't imagine a single vehicle.
Cars are superior to horses today, but remember that we're still in the infancy of the whole "transportation as a service" industry, and cars took decades to replace horses.
Car2Go hasn't even been around 10 years yet. It was founded in 2008 and is still only in 26 cities worldwide. They're not even in Edmonton or Ottawa yet. Uber and Lyft both launched about 5 years ago.
Compare that to cars. Karl Benz built what is recognized as the first purpose-built automobile in 1885 (and people had been working on ideas for automobiles for decades before that). 20 years later, there were still only 78,000 cars in the entire USA (http://www.carhistory4u.com/the-last...car-production) for a population just under 84 million.
Even though many companies are working on and testing autonomous vehicles, fully-autonomous vehicles still aren't legal anywhere in the world. When compared to the development of the car, the Karl Benz of autonomous vehicles doesn't even exist yet, let alone the Henry Ford (who started his company in 1903 -- 18 years after Benz).
As for your dog, if there's a market for it, someone will provide it.
Cab companies already offer pet-friendly options. Hotels advertise themselves as pet-friendly (when they are). There are even a growing number of pet-friendly restaurants because people wanted it.
I can almost guarantee that there will be pet-friendly transportation companies.
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I'm a little confused, who is saying you can't have your own vehicle? That 100% of the people will be on a ridesharing plan?
It's just a theory that a lot of articles are presenting. I can't recall if anyone here mentioned the ride sharing concept. I'm pretty sure that companies like Google are trying to set it up that way. They want no one to own a vehicle just call when you need one kind of thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
Cars are superior to horses today, but remember that we're still in the infancy of the whole "transportation as a service" industry, and cars took decades to replace horses..........
That's kind of what I'm saying. Unless you make an automated car (again I'm mostly referring to the ridesharing/fleet idea) why would I not own my own. It's not yet dramatically better. I agree there will be pet options etc. Therein lies the problem of not owning your own. I get up and go there with my dogs when I want and find time. I'm not sitting around waiting for 25 minutes for a car. In this scenario I'm assuming wait times since a dog friendly car would likely be a niche market.
Sorry I typically think of the automated car as a ride sharing idea. Mostly because articles about them often go that way and it seems to me like an idea that doesn't work.
I can guarantee you'll be dead by the time the idea of the personal vehicle is extinct.
The thing that's important to remember about these technologically based societal shifts is that they happen gradually and depend on the adoption of society. So unless you believe in the coming of some Orwellian state where you're no longer granted freedom of choice in ownership and mobility, and even still that said state is coming quickly, your worries are not based in any relevant reality. The scenarios you're presenting, where you can't take your dogs to the park or whatever, aren't things that are actually worth worrying about.
We already have a lot of that and those advantages. It's public transit. At this point it's not AI, so I guess it doesn't check that box, but I think every other advantage of this this already exists for those who prefer that method of transportation.
Public transit is good for getting you from a predetermined point A to a predetermined point B, but not very good at getting you to a specific place.
If you combine both public transit with a better last mile service you might have a real winner.
Except cars are vastly superior for travel compared to horses. Ride sharing auto cars are not vastly superior to my own vehicle. I enjoy bringing my dogs to the dog park. Am I going to use a pooled car to do that? People cry if there's a dog somewhere on the same airplane as them I can't imagine a single vehicle.
Sorry, but ride sharing self driving cars ARE a vastly superior form of transportation compared to whatever method you are using by yourself.
As pointed out, having that system in place does not mean you cannot own your own car.
Public transit is good for getting you from a predetermined point A to a predetermined point B, but not very good at getting you to a specific place.
If you combine both public transit with a better last mile service you might have a real winner.
I really think fixed path transit is what will slowly be phased out with self driving cars. If you can get comparable people density with reduced car sizes and eliminate congestion with AI. Autodrive buses, mini buses, vans and ride share should be able to replace it more efficiently.
My understanding of self driving cars is they currently give control back to the driver if there is a situation they can't handle. So if it hits ice it'll give control back to a driver. A drive that rarely drives and therefore has no experience is only control the car in the worst condition possible. That likely won't go well. It will prevent a lot of small accindents in trade off for a few big ones (like commercial auto pilot). It sounds great but I'm very skeptical of how this tech worksupport in snow and ice and with lanes covered etc. I'd be impressed. Note I haven't looked up any info on self driving cars on ice etc
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My understanding of self driving cars is they currently give control back to the driver if there is a situation they can't handle. So if it hits ice it'll give control back to a driver. A drive that rarely drives and therefore has no experience is only control the car in the worst condition possible. That likely won't go well. It will prevent a lot of small accindents in trade off for a few big ones (like commercial auto pilot). It sounds great but I'm very skeptical of how this tech worksupport in snow and ice and with lanes covered etc. I'd be impressed. Note I haven't looked up any info on self driving cars on ice etc
I was reading about this yesterday, research is showing that systems where the vehicle returns control to the drivers in certain situations are not really effective/safe. It seems like the auto manufacturers are increasingly thinking that Google/Waymo's approach of having no steering wheel, pedals etc for the occupants is the preferred design.
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So my question is with these automated cars, what happens if a solar burst from the sun knocks out the satellite controlling all these cars? Do they just shut down or will it cause the most accidents ever seen at one time?
My understanding of self driving cars is they currently give control back to the driver if there is a situation they can't handle. So if it hits ice it'll give control back to a driver. A drive that rarely drives and therefore has no experience is only control the car in the worst condition possible. That likely won't go well. It will prevent a lot of small accindents in trade off for a few big ones (like commercial auto pilot). It sounds great but I'm very skeptical of how this tech worksupport in snow and ice and with lanes covered etc. I'd be impressed. Note I haven't looked up any info on self driving cars on ice etc
Here's a video from Ford talking about the testing they're doing in winter driving conditions...
As they say, everyone who knows how to drive in the snow had to learn by doing. They can program that knowledge into the autonomous vehicles so that a vehicle straight off the assembly line can drive just as well in snow as one that's gone through numerous winters. The same can't be said for human drivers with the same level of experience.
Worse than driving on snowy/icy roads will be getting the vehicles to safely drive through falling snow or rain. That's the real challenge. No one will embrace autonomous vehicles if they can't run in a light drizzle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner
So my question is with these automated cars, what happens if a solar burst from the sun knocks out the satellite controlling all these cars? Do they just shut down or will it cause the most accidents ever seen at one time?
There won't be a satellite controlling all the cars.
Each car will be autonomous, just as cars today are. Essentially, each vehicle will be an independent node that can connect with other vehicles to form mobile ad hoc mesh networks. The more nodes that are connected, the better information all members of the network will have access to. However, if a vehicle is completely unconnected, it will still function and take you to your destination. It just won't have as much information as it could if it were fully connected.
If you're talking about transportation companies and their vehicles losing contact with their home network, that's a potential point of failure that the service providers would need to be prepared for. If you were in the vehicle when the connection was lost, it should still continue to your destination. The vehicle just might be stranded once it gets there until it can reconnect.
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I can guarantee you'll be dead by the time the idea of the personal vehicle is extinct.
The thing that's important to remember about these technologically based societal shifts is that they happen gradually and depend on the adoption of society. So unless you believe in the coming of some Orwellian state where you're no longer granted freedom of choice in ownership and mobility, and even still that said state is coming quickly, your worries are not based in any relevant reality. The scenarios you're presenting, where you can't take your dogs to the park or whatever, aren't things that are actually worth worrying about.
I tend to agree with you. I guess it's difficult for you to know what I'm actually responding to. What I'm responding to are all the people that say this will be in full effect by 2030 and it will be utopia. Just trying to point out hurdles, and I guess things that seem pretty silly to me. I'm sure in time all those problems will be solved. The Orwellian state with no freedom will definitely happen because everyone seems have an attitude that people have zero say in anything so you might as just give up and accept it.
Yeah the dog thing was just pointing out how trivial everyone will be when it comes to things they want. You could rchange that idea to a lot of different things, they will all need to be offered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Sorry, but ride sharing self driving cars ARE a vastly superior form of transportation compared to whatever method you are using by yourself.
As pointed out, having that system in place does not mean you cannot own your own car.
Autonomous ride sharing is not vastly superior. Obviously it should be much safer.
So that leaves time and convenience vs cost and environmental. Ride sharing itself doesn't save any time, it takes more time. Traffic congestion will be reduced due to fewer accidents. Once the cars are communicating with each other and the roadways are changed then you will see traffic congestion really reduced. The potential for more cars on the road could offset it, at least until the road system is changed. Unemployment might dramatically increases (insurance, gas, oil, mechanics, any driving job), plus a fairly drastic decrease in revenue from driving infractions, who's paying for all these changes? Toll roads, or a new tax of some kind (distance driven?) will absolutely have to be in place. Unless some new industry pops as a result of these new cars (that is very possible), a lot of people will be out of work. Urban sprawl will become much much worse, I don't need to live close to work since I can sleep on the way anyway.
Will it really be cheaper? What will all the costs be? The only way it is cheaper is if you do not own your own car or if owning a car will be incredibly expensive.
If the argument is that every vehicle will be electric anyway then the environmental benefit kind of goes out the window too.
I agree on ownership, I'm arguing against the thought that ride sharing will take over and no one will own a car. I don't think that's realistic in any way. Ride sharing will absolutely increase, and it will be great in every way for a certain segment of the population. That said, these companies could have much greater plans than I realize, and the ride sharing concept could be amazing. Based on what I can see now, it's hard to imagine.
I'm sure that is a very rambly response, and I've not acknowledged a bunch of important facts . There are some serious positives about autonomous vehicles, I'm just tired of reading how it's all going to be an amazing utiopia. Again, mostly referring to people not owning their own vehicles.
. There are some serious positives about autonomous vehicles, I'm just tired of reading how it's all going to be an amazing utiopia. Again, mostly referring to people not owning their own vehicles.
