2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think this is the problem that faces the Flames - they need to completely re-shape how they deploy their bottom two lines.

You can no longer ice completely terrible hockey players in your line-up, regardless of contract status. There's no place for Brouwer on this team. There's no place for slower, ineffective 5v5 players on NHL rosters.

Bennett - Jankowski - ?
Mangiapane - ? - Lazar
Shore

Your bottom 2 lines need to have talent, speed, and work ethic. It's no longer about working your way up the line-up so that you can get into a position to score, it's about producing from the 3rd and 4th lines.

Couldn't agree more. I also believe even though I would love a true top 6 RW that this team can be good with a much improved bottom 6. They got very little from their bottom 6 all year

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't think Kapanen projects as a top 6 forward. He is a Frolik type player. You don't trade a potential first pairing guy like Anderson for a Frolik type player.

Defense is a premium position over a winger. I think a lot of Flames fans are getting too worked up about getting a winger that they forget that it is the least important position. If you have good centremen, you will have good wingers; the problem for the Flames is Bennett and Jankowski aren't there yet and it's not clear if they will get there.

As for Mangiapane, if he continues his development trend, he will be a top 6 scorer which is more valuable than a middle sixer like Kapanen is projected to be. Fingers crossed that Mangiapane continues to develop. Of course, Kapanen has more value now mostly due to pedigree I think, but I think Mangiapane's upside is higher.

While Kapanen has put up points in the AHL for the Marlies, I would be cautious of that. Every prospect of the Marlies puts up points. Might have something to do with the way the team plays.

Frolik has been the Flames #1RW since for the last 3 years. He has another 2 years left at 4.3

In your mind has he become a problem?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Frolik has been the Flames #1RW since for the last 3 years. He has another 2 years left at 4.3

In your mind has he become a problem?

Flames #1RW and actual #1 RW aren't the same thing. Why do you think the Flames goal should be to acquire another Frolik type player, is that what you think we are missing?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Couldn't agree more. I also believe even though I would love a true top 6 RW that this team can be good with a much improved bottom 6. They got very little from their bottom 6 all year

I would suggest that the bottom 6 is a much more pressing issue than finding another top 6 RW.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund, Ferland, all had career (or averageish offensively) seasons.

They got torched on the bottom 6, sans a decent rookie season from Jankowski.

Hathaway, Lazar, Brouwer, Bennett, Frolik are all guys that need to be improved upon.

defensively they have to improve brodies spot...he was a boat anchor.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Kapanen showed elite level skating in the playoffs. Cheap acquisition and the type of guy I would love to add even if it's not the #1 priority of adding a top 6 RW.

Okay, but if we are talking about adding a top 6 RW, and we traded Anderson for Kapanen (which is what is being proposed), what are you trading for the top flight RW? Suddenly we have already gotten rid of our closest NHL D prospect, so we are now looking at moving one of our Roster D? Who fills that hole that is created? Kylington and Villamaki are pretty much untested at the NHL level. Expecting either of those guys to plug that hole is far too hopeful in my opinion. Fox to me is found money at this point, money that might not be worth anything to this organization if he walks after college. Keep Anderson, Trade Fox and one of Stone or Brodie. That is, unless Hamilton is one of the unnamed players that Brad T took exception with in the Post Season Presser. If so, leverage him for all hes worth and promote from within.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Mangiapane's rookie season was very impressive, I'd argue that he just needs the opportunity at the NHL level in the same way Kapanen got the opportunity.

???? He finished his 2nd year as a pro. He is not yet an NHL rookie.

His main AHL success came with 2 of the bigger players on the team Jankowski and Hathaway who were top level AHL players. The Flames do not have enough top level big players to go around at the NHL level.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Toronto finished the season with 105 pts. The Flames 84 pts.

They had such a good team that Flames wash out Curtis McElhinney was 11-5-1 with a .934 sv % and a 2.14 GA.

Did a 34 year old McElhinney finally work it out OR was the team in front of him that much better than the Flames for instance.

Of course their arrogance and valuation of their players is going to be high.

The median CP poster is also arrogant. Somehow the Flames have one of the best team defenses in the league AND are over loaded with top-4 defense prospects who will be NHL ready next season.

The Leafs camp has a much better chance of getting an acceptable trade as the Leafs are dealing from a position of strength.

The Flames will be moving players.( management has identified that the roster is not good enough) ..and the return is going to be extremely disappointing as the roster is not good enough.

I am definitely not a Leaf fan but they played the game with speed and skill and won a lot of games.

Warranted or not some cities certainly produce more arrogant fans than others. A lot of it comes from their media and in Toronto I don't think a fan can avoid getting puffed up.

And disagree on the bolded. Both teams have a surplus of something the other team needs. That should balance out the position of strength against each other, but leave both teams advantaged overall because they have said strength.

When you factor in the value of defensemen over wingers it kicks it Calgary's way.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I am definitely not a Leaf fan but they played the game with speed and skill and won a lot of games.

You are definitely not a Flames fan either so there is that.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't think Kapanen projects as a top 6 forward. He is a Frolik type player. You don't trade a potential first pairing guy like Anderson for a Frolik type player.

Defense is a premium position over a winger. I think a lot of Flames fans are getting too worked up about getting a winger that they forget that it is the least important position. If you have good centremen, you will have good wingers; the problem for the Flames is Bennett and Jankowski aren't there yet and it's not clear if they will get there.

As for Mangiapane, if he continues his development trend, he will be a top 6 scorer which is more valuable than a middle sixer like Kapanen is projected to be. Fingers crossed that Mangiapane continues to develop. Of course, Kapanen has more value now mostly due to pedigree I think, but I think Mangiapane's upside is higher.

While Kapanen has put up points in the AHL for the Marlies, I would be cautious of that. Every prospect of the Marlies puts up points. Might have something to do with the way the team plays.

This is where I was going with my leading question. Is the difference between Mangiapane and Kapanen Rasmus Andersson? I don't think so from what I've seen and from the comments here. I'd be more inclined to give Mangiapane a better shot than trading Andersson for Kapanen.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Flames #1RW and actual #1 RW aren't the same thing. Why do you think the Flames goal should be to acquire another Frolik type player, is that what you think we are missing?

I think that the CP board would be ecstatic is Klimchuk or Poirier or Mangipane (or Jankowski) became a .5 ppg player who could play against the other teams top line and come away with a positive +/- ....

I think there would be relief if Bennett became 2013-2017 Frolik.

[yourbestfriend]

Gio - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone

Andersson
Kylington
Valimaki
Fox

We have 4 prospects who are knocking on the door for an NHL job, but who also havne't definitively shown they good enough to take a full time spot away from our top6 guys.
We can't possibly keep all 4 of our prospects. Trading from a position of surplus for assets where we have literally 0 prospects doesn't mean we gave up on our guy, it's just good asset management.

All really good teams do this (Nashville, Anaheim, Tampa) which allows them to plug holes without having to spend a fortune at free agency.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Warranted or not some cities certainly produce more arrogant fans than others. A lot of it comes from their media and in Toronto I don't think a fan can avoid getting puffed up.

And disagree on the bolded. Both teams have a surplus of something the other team needs. That should balance out the position of strength against each other, but leave both teams advantaged overall because they have said strength.

When you factor in the value of defensemen over wingers it kicks it Calgary's way.

With the Toronto UFAs they don't have a surplus of good young forwards. They need their guys to fill the roster when they pay their elite ELCs

You are assuming that the Flames defense is a position of strength. Just went through an exercise on another thread where Flames #5 Stone would not be an upgrade on any playoff team's #4.

The Flames Brain thrust, after drafting Valimaki, thought they needed Stone to be a #5 for 3 years and Bartkowski at #6. That is pretty much an admission that they thought/think their prospects are 2-3 years away at best.

The Flames defense pool is deeper than the forward depth (to CP level of analysis) BUT it not a closed system.

Brodie would be interesting to other teams ... as he is to the Flames with a new coach/system.... but he would have to be considered a project whether he stays or goes.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames Brain thrust, after drafting Valimaki, thought they needed Stone to be a #5 for 3 years and Bartkowski at #6. That is pretty much an admission that they thought/think their prospects are 2-3 years away at best.

This is so asinine it's amazing you get away with deliberately trolling on this forum like you do.

You aren't interested in contributing to these discussions, you just want to watch them burn.

[868904]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Frolik has been the Flames #1RW since for the last 3 years. He has another 2 years left at 4.3

In your mind has he become a problem?

Frolik is not a problem, but why would you trade a potential top pairing defenceman for a potential middle sixer?

Frolik is not even the issue here, he was just brought up as a comparison for Kapanen's potential.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

With the Toronto UFAs they don't have a surplus of good young forwards. They need their guys to fill the roster when they pay their elite ELCs

You are assuming that the Flames defense is a position of strength. Just went through an exercise on another thread where Flames #5 Stone would not be an upgrade on any playoff team's #4.

The Flames Brain thrust, after drafting Valimaki, thought they needed Stone to be a #5 for 3 years and Bartkowski at #6. That is pretty much an admission that they thought/think their prospects are 2-3 years away at best.

The Flames defense pool is deeper than the forward depth (to CP level of analysis) BUT it not a closed system.

Brodie would be interesting to other teams ... as he is to the Flames with a new coach/system.... but he would have to be considered a project whether he stays or goes.

No, it really isnt. Not even close.

What it is though, is a management team making sure they have a contingency plan if the young guys dont work out in that time frame.

Good teams have that in spades. Whether or not the young guys are able to make the jump, you still need players to play. Thats what they did here. If the young guys do work out, then they have options all over the place to upgrade every area of the team that needs it.

It's simply good management practice.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think Bartowski was thought to be a #7. And that's what he was. I don't know why anyone would view his roster inclusion of a sign of anything other than the need to have a guy sit there and eat pop corn most nights.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think Bartowski was thought to be a #7. And that's what he was. I don't know why anyone would view his roster inclusion of a sign of anything other than the need to have a guy sit there and eat pop corn most nights.

Can you imagine the comments if they brought up Andersson to sit 80% of the games?

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

This is so asinine it's amazing you get away with deliberately trolling on this forum like you do.

You aren't interested in contributing to these discussions, you just want to watch them burn.

Regarding the Stone signing, I don't think he's wrong. With the exception of Andersson who looked OK playing with Stone, none of our D prospects have shown they can play at the NHL level yet. Which is why this years training camp is going to be a hellofa show.

The Stone signing (3years) IMO is a signal from management that they didn't think our D-prospects would be ready for another 1-2 seasons

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Regarding the Stone signing, I don't think he's wrong. With the exception of Andersson who looked OK playing with Stone, none of our D prospects have shown they can play at the NHL level yet. Which is why this years training camp is going to be a hellofa show.

The Stone signing (3years) IMO is a signal from management that they didn't think our D-prospects would be ready for another 1-2 seasons

No, it means they wanted to ensure they have a decent defenceman on the roster IF that happens. Or if Kulak didn't take a step forward. Or if Gio's age catches up.

You don't plan for the minimum amount of defencemen on your roster.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Regarding the Stone signing, I don't think he's wrong. With the exception of Andersson who looked OK playing with Stone, none of our D prospects have shown they can play at the NHL level yet. Which is why this years training camp is going to be a hellofa show.

The Stone signing (3years) IMO is a signal from management that they didn't think our D-prospects would be ready for another 1-2 seasons

No, it doesn't mean that at all. It means they liked the veteran presence at the time it was signed, and knew (just like anyone with an ounce of common sense) that if our prospects pushed - it would be a good problem to have - and Stone can be dealt for assets from a position of strength.

In no way was it an indictment of our prospects. It was to add depth to an already strong system of defenders.

But Ricardow knows that, he's just a trolling fan of another team on a whole other level of wasting his own time the way he subtly looks to insert nonsensical contentious items that turn threads into focusing on his need for attention.