Golf!!!2!

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I watched it, I'm not sure what lesson to take from it though. Is it "don't believe your eyes"?

Without a chalk line and the plate, nothing.

It's about matching up what you feel with your feet and what you see with your eyes.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

You don't get fit for bounce. Bounce in your wedges is players choice and dependent mostly on the conditions you are playing. Bounce can cancel out some swing deficiencies (angle of attack - choppers need more bounce while sweepers need less bounce) but you use the bounce of the club to manage course conditions. If conditions are soft, the sand is deep, and rough is deep (think Florida/BC) then you want wedges with high bounce. If the conditions are hard, the sand is shallow or wet, and the rough is thin and tight (think Arizona/Alberta), you want low bounce.

Not sure why everyone wants to argue lately.

Yes, higher bounce for softer conditions, lower bounce for dryer.

But also yes, you can get fitted for them as some golfers will generally hit different ones better than others as the sole plays different on each.

Other things like lie come into play with a fitting. This can effect the bounce as well.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Sigh. It's not arguing, just correcting a misperception that may confuse people.

Bounce in irons is controlled trough manufacturing and consistent throughout the set. Most forged sets start at 2-3* (at 3 iron) with a single degree increment change until PW/GW, which is usually at 12*. Forged clubs will have a step variance of 1-1.5 degree in the 6-8 iron and then a similar step in the 7-9 irons to blend the set. Cast clubs normally have larger soles so have a larger bounce, usually starting at 4-5* (at three iron) and progressing at 1* to 12* at PW.

Manufacturers do not create sets with additional bounce without creating custom castings of the club or doing complete regrinds on soles. This is extremely time consuming and expensive depending on the process. See Cobra and the work they did with Bryson DeChambeau and why other manufacturers show no interest in sponsioring him. The bounce for sets will be controlled through the size and depth of sole, but the actual bounce remains consistent as per the manufacturer's specification at time of casting or forging. For example, Cobra created custom heads for DeChambeau with more sole to create more bounce. Swing adjustments can be made which affect bounce, but then have other ramifications on other performance characteristics of the club a player does not usually desire. You're not getting a club with more bounce, you're creating bounce by altering the club and swing and living with the negative consequences of the alteration. This is no different than throwing any club wide open and using a shallow flat swing. The bounce on the club remains the same, you've just created more bounce by changing the contact point in relation to trailing edge of the sole.

True bounce, the angle of the base of the sole to the leading edge of the club, is not something done through the entirety of the set. It is why you don't see iron sets advertised with bounce, or the bounce labeled on the club itself. You only see this in wedges because wedges are manufactured with different bounce characteristics and clearly stamped with those variations.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Is there anywhere left in calgary with a real indoor short game facility, kind of like what Riverside Golf used to have before they replaced it all with simulator booths? Like an actual large putting surface that you can chip onto.

The biggest thing I find that simulators are garbage at is play around the greens. They cannot figure out what a putt from the rough is going to do and they assume every shot within 40 yards is going to be a partial swing with a 56 degree wedge... which just results in a very confidence-inspiring but probably not very realistic session of hitting a ton of wide open flop shots.

An actual real life surface to chip at from say 5 feet off the green, even though it's not real grass, would be very beneficial.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Is there anywhere left in calgary with a real indoor short game facility, kind of like what Riverside Golf used to have before they replaced it all with simulator booths? Like an actual large putting surface that you can chip onto.

The biggest thing I find that simulators are garbage at is play around the greens. They cannot figure out what a putt from the rough is going to do and they assume every shot within 40 yards is going to be a partial swing with a 56 degree wedge... which just results in a very confidence-inspiring but probably not very realistic session of hitting a ton of wide open flop shots.

An actual real life surface to chip at from say 5 feet off the green, even though it's not real grass, would be very beneficial.

Given how good some simulators have gotten, this would be the way to go for a golf dome. Take the full swing stuff to the simulators, convert all that other space to indoor short game and putting areas. NCAA schools have these setups and they're getting pretty good.

[Slava]

I thought Total Golf has something, but I've never been there soni can't really say. I do agree that the sims and short game are bad though.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Is there anywhere left in calgary with a real indoor short game facility, kind of like what Riverside Golf used to have before they replaced it all with simulator booths? Like an actual large putting surface that you can chip onto.

The biggest thing I find that simulators are garbage at is play around the greens. They cannot figure out what a putt from the rough is going to do and they assume every shot within 40 yards is going to be a partial swing with a 56 degree wedge... which just results in a very confidence-inspiring but probably not very realistic session of hitting a ton of wide open flop shots.

An actual real life surface to chip at from say 5 feet off the green, even though it's not real grass, would be very beneficial.

You could try total golf in deerfoot meadows. They were just setting up the last time I was there, but they're were supposed to have simulators and then a huge chipping, putting set up. They're in a large warehouse

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Sigh. It's not arguing, just correcting a misperception that may confuse people.

Bounce in irons is controlled trough manufacturing and consistent throughout the set. Most forged sets start at 2-3* (at 3 iron) with a single degree increment change until PW/GW, which is usually at 12*. Forged clubs will have a step variance of 1-1.5 degree in the 6-8 iron and then a similar step in the 7-9 irons to blend the set. Cast clubs normally have larger soles so have a larger bounce, usually starting at 4-5* (at three iron) and progressing at 1* to 12* at PW.

Manufacturers do not create sets with additional bounce without creating custom castings of the club or doing complete regrinds on soles. This is extremely time consuming and expensive depending on the process. See Cobra and the work they did with Bryson DeChambeau and why other manufacturers show no interest in sponsioring him. The bounce for sets will be controlled through the size and depth of sole, but the actual bounce remains consistent as per the manufacturer's specification at time of casting or forging. For example, Cobra created custom heads for DeChambeau with more sole to create more bounce. Swing adjustments can be made which affect bounce, but then have other ramifications on other performance characteristics of the club a player does not usually desire. You're not getting a club with more bounce, you're creating bounce by altering the club and swing and living with the negative consequences of the alteration. This is no different than throwing any club wide open and using a shallow flat swing. The bounce on the club remains the same, you've just created more bounce by changing the contact point in relation to trailing edge of the sole.

True bounce, the angle of the base of the sole to the leading edge of the club, is not something done through the entirety of the set. It is why you don't see iron sets advertised with bounce, or the bounce labeled on the club itself. You only see this in wedges because wedges are manufactured with different bounce characteristics and clearly stamped with those variations.

Cool story bro.

Still not sure what the 'misperception' was.


Here you go. "There's lots of Grinds/Bounces you can choose from and even get fitted for"

Added "choose from and". does that make more sense?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

So, I spoke to Total Golf and they person on the phone (who was very nice) says they have a lot of putting room, but no real chipping area. What they do have is a driving range type of area which is really a lot like what Riverside has - i.e., some stalls with a net about 20 feet or so away. So that all sounds good and everything, and probably worth checking out at some point... but it's still not quite what I was looking for.

I'm really surprised, given that it's an area that so many people are quick to say they're bad at, that no one has a space for this. Seems like if you did have one you'd be the only game in town for short game stuff.

[CarlLester]

Have you tried Dynamic Motion? Seems like their facility is along the lines of what you are looking for. However, it is a little unclear from the website if you can just book it for practice or if it is tied to a lesson program.

[indes]

Is it golf season yet? Not golfing is the worst.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CarlLester

Have you tried Dynamic Motion? Seems like their facility is along the lines of what you are looking for. However, it is a little unclear from the website if you can just book it for practice or if it is tied to a lesson program.

Yeah it's tied to lessons - they have a small version of what I'm talking about (basically a putting green with some artificial rough next to it) but it's small and lesson-oriented.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Cool story bro.

Still not sure what the 'misperception' was.


Here you go. "There's lots of Grinds/Bounces you can choose from and even get fitted for"

Added "choose from and". does that make more sense?

It's not a "cool story" bro. It's just the way things are. And yes, the alteration to your statement is helpful and should not re-enforce certain misperceptions floating around, those being that technology and fitting will solve all problems.

[Northendzone]

would the RCGA center off Deerfoot work for your needs.
you are hitting off mats and you can hit towards some target greens or pick your own target to hit towards

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Is there anywhere left in calgary with a real indoor short game facility, kind of like what Riverside Golf used to have before they replaced it all with simulator booths? Like an actual large putting surface that you can chip onto.

The biggest thing I find that simulators are garbage at is play around the greens. They cannot figure out what a putt from the rough is going to do and they assume every shot within 40 yards is going to be a partial swing with a 56 degree wedge... which just results in a very confidence-inspiring but probably not very realistic session of hitting a ton of wide open flop shots.

An actual real life surface to chip at from say 5 feet off the green, even though it's not real grass, would be very beneficial.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Well no, that sounds like a driving range. Are you talking about the Golf Dome?

I'm talking about an indoor version of the practice green that nearly every golf course on earth has to warm up on before your round starts... mostly for putting but in many cases chipping also.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Well no, that sounds like a driving range. Are you talking about the Golf Dome?

I'm talking about an indoor version of the practice green that nearly every golf course on earth has to warm up on before your round starts... mostly for putting but in many cases chipping also.

I have a hard time envisioning an artificial turf short game facility being very helpful for practice. It would be too forgiving for chipping, and putting wouldn't seem any more beneficial than just working on your stroke, which can be done at home with some kind of putting matt.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Explain what you mean about being too forgiving for chipping - couldn't you use artificial rough? I would think you could make it as unforgiving as you want. Granted you can't dig your club into the ground.

I think it would be very useful to hit a whole bunch of shots from a short distance to get a feel for how far the ball carries off your club, how it rolls out, and so on, so that when you get on a course you have a better sense of "if I hit the ball with this much weight and open my club face to here, and I've read this green right, it's going to land at that spot, and then release to that spot over there."

I actually have a piece of artificial grass in my back yard that I was using last summer to chip off of, but solely to get a feel for height and carry distance off the face, which obviously is only one part of the battle. And I don't really have the space or inclination to do that inside my house. I do putt on a mat at home but it's... well... flat. And 8 feet long. There are practice greens around obviously (including at golf dome and riverside), so I use those when they're available. But no room to chip.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Explain what you mean about being too forgiving for chipping - couldn't you use artificial rough? I would think you could make it as unforgiving as you want. Granted you can't dig your club into the ground.

I think it would be very useful to hit a whole bunch of shots from a short distance to get a feel for how far the ball carries off your club, how it rolls out, and so on, so that when you get on a course you have a better sense of "if I hit the ball with this much weight and open my club face to here, and I've read this green right, it's going to land at that spot, and then release to that spot over there."

I actually have a piece of artificial grass in my back yard that I was using last summer to chip off of, but solely to get a feel for height and carry distance off the face, which obviously is only one part of the battle. And I don't really have the space or inclination to do that inside my house. I do putt on a mat at home but it's... well... flat. And 8 feet long. There are practice greens around obviously (including at golf dome and riverside), so I use those when they're available. But no room to chip.

I'm kind of more curious than anything. I saw pics of University of Illinois indoor practice facility, and wondered if it was actually useful for practice or more gimick for recruiting.



Our Golf Galaxy has a pretty large putting green and fringe for chipping, and it just never really felt very realistic. So much of chipping is the interaction of the club and grass, and the feedback from artificial turf even if it is longer turf is not really the same to me anyway.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I'm not denying that there are differences, but there are also differences between putting on an indoor fake green and the real thing. Or, for that matter, playing golf on a simulator where every shot is hit off a mat and there are no weird lies. But I still think it's useful even if it's not totally real-world accurate.

Like I say, Riverside used to have something like this and I did find it useful. But obviously they determined that using that space for simulator booths brought in more $, and they were obviously right about that in their particular setup.

[Northendzone]

i am feeling like what you are looking for does not exist in calgary in the winter months.

i can't understand why you could not go to a driving range and work on your chipping there. go to a stall, pick some target 10 yards away and fire away

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Explain what you mean about being too forgiving for chipping - couldn't you use artificial rough? I would think you could make it as unforgiving as you want. Granted you can't dig your club into the ground.

I think it would be very useful to hit a whole bunch of shots from a short distance to get a feel for how far the ball carries off your club, how it rolls out, and so on, so that when you get on a course you have a better sense of "if I hit the ball with this much weight and open my club face to here, and I've read this green right, it's going to land at that spot, and then release to that spot over there."

I actually have a piece of artificial grass in my back yard that I was using last summer to chip off of, but solely to get a feel for height and carry distance off the face, which obviously is only one part of the battle. And I don't really have the space or inclination to do that inside my house. I do putt on a mat at home but it's... well... flat. And 8 feet long. There are practice greens around obviously (including at golf dome and riverside), so I use those when they're available. But no room to chip.