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Old 02-15-2020, 11:57 AM   #21
blankall
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Uggghhhh... Unrelated but yet another water leak in my rental unit. May just sell at this point. Such a hassle dealing with tenants and issues.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:58 AM   #22
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Yeah, volunteering with Calgary Legal Guidance, I saw all sorts of crazy #### pulled by landlords.

In order to keep the DD, you have to have:

- a written move in inspection form
- a written move out inspection form
- photos of the damage
- the damage cannot be attributed to wear and tear.


I would say that 90% of the time, the landlord lost at the landlord/tenant dispute board. Some of the stuff they tried to pull was incredible. I wish the dispute board would have fined them actually.
It just seems crazy to me that landlords ever lose. Why would you not just follow the rules at the beginning and end of the lease...

I've had a few tenants threaten to take me to RTDRS but only one ever has. I won easily, because I follow the rules.

Although the cross-section of landlords in the waiting room was a revelation - if I wasn't eavesdropping I would never have assumed the grizzled old man with poor teeth and no education demographic owned so much property...

**the tenants who threatened to take me to RTDRS include every tenant where I've ever ever kept a portion of the security deposit. I think in a couple of cases they've called and bee told things like, "no, a giant hole in the ceiling probably isnt normal wear and tear"

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Old 02-15-2020, 12:56 PM   #23
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I would say that 90% of the time, the landlord lost at the landlord/tenant dispute board. Some of the stuff they tried to pull was incredible. I wish the dispute board would have fined them actually.
As someone who is taking their landlord to the RTDRS next week, that's good to hear.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:39 PM   #24
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What the heck this is as good a time as any to post my history of getting damage deposit back. Please follow the examples of the nice ones.

1. Lost $50 for additional carpet cleaning. Seemed ok considering this was a university share house that wasn’t treated great.

2. The landlords were my friend’s parents. I had to patch up and paint an ass sized hole I put in the wall goaltending in kitchen hockey but otherwise got the full DD back.

3. Went over the place with a magnifying glass noting every bit of dirt or dust. Then tallied each item up as 5 minutes of work for his wife to clean at $60/hour. One of my worst landlords ever. I just paid up so I’d never see his face again.

4. The best landlords I ever had were these two older Hungarian ladies in Sunnyside. Just super friendly and full DD returned.

5. I used the recommended cleaning service. Got the full DD back but the cleaners told the landlord I was messy and they then gave me a poor reference for my next place.

6. Another good landlord. Full DD returned with no issues.

7. Renting a room with my wife and dog at a friends house with her and a cat. One day during a storm the cat goes crazy and rips up a bunch of carpet near the landlords bedroom door but of course she blames it on the dog. This leads to a big argument and we are essentially kicked out with no damage deposit returned. Eventually we worked out an agreement to pay for some of the carpet and had the DD returned.

8. They tried to get us for a number of things but after some arguing we got the full DD back. One item was the condition of the yard but thankfully we had notes and photos showing it in much worse condition when we moved it. We were also criticised for leaving the recycling full. What am I supposed to do with recycling when it comes once every two weeks and the next date is two days after we move out?

9. Tried to get us for damage to the hardwood flooring. We pointed out it was not hardwood but cheap laminate and we had evidence it was already damaged before moving in. Full DD returned.

10. Saving the worst for last. I ranted about this in the gear grinder a while back. We were screwed over by both the cleaners and the landlords. They came at us hard for everything including light bulbs, normal wear and tear, and issues with light switches, cupboards, and a shower door that we had reported as issues and they refused to fix. We eventually sorted everything out except for some scratches on the floor they deemed more than wear and tear. In the end they accepted $200 for the floor and I left feeling extorted.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:11 PM   #25
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Tips for renters: Take detailed notes and photos when you move in. If you break something fix it right away. When leaving use a well known cleaning company with references and a damage deposit guarantee.

Tips for landlords: At the start provide the renter with a list of all existing defects for them to add to and sign. If the renter later reports new issues respond and fix promptly. Understand what normal wear and tear means. Also realise that if you built your rental property with the cheapest kitchen, bathrooms, and flooring possible these wear out quicker. Don’t be a dick.
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:48 PM   #26
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Tips for landlords: Don’t be a dick.
The most important part of your post.
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:41 PM   #27
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Thanks for all the tips. We definitely have a pre love in inspection chart filled out, as I said it was brand new so basically everything was mint. I know for sure one door has a golf ball sized hole in it, I was going to just price a door out and do it myself, but now reading this I might just get a quote from a supplier, primed painted hinged and handled ready to go. With a receipt to show for any disputes, will be much more expensive for the tenant unfortunately.
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:45 PM   #28
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Thanks for all the tips. We definitely have a pre love in inspection chart filled out, as I said it was brand new so basically everything was mint. I know for sure one door has a golf ball sized hole in it, I was going to just price a door out and do it myself, but now reading this I might just get a quote from a supplier, primed painted hinged and handled ready to go. With a receipt to show for any disputes, will be much more expensive for the tenant unfortunately.
In that case, you may want to get the black light out...
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:54 PM   #29
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Haha, typed that one on the phone. To good to edit it now.

Just looked over the inspection and ya everything was new when they moved in. There's misc. paint chips noted and a few specific scratches on sections of the floor. Otherwise it was brand new every appliance, sink, drain, base board heaters, water heater, hvac etc..

Have a really good relationship with the tenant and we've made out like bandits for four years with her being an absolute hassle free rent on time never have anyone over constantly out of town for weeks on trips watches our dog when were out of town type of person. So were not looking to screw anyone over. I'll probably just split the cost of the door with her and send her on her way, barring and unforeseen issues she hasn't disclosed to me yet.

Suite paid for itself which is all I wanted, no need to get greedy now.

Thanks again for all the tips.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:11 AM   #30
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Thanks for all the tips. We definitely have a pre love in inspection chart filled out, as I said it was brand new so basically everything was mint. I know for sure one door has a golf ball sized hole in it, I was going to just price a door out and do it myself, but now reading this I might just get a quote from a supplier, primed painted hinged and handled ready to go. With a receipt to show for any disputes, will be much more expensive for the tenant unfortunately.
Basically, what I've heard is that a good rule of thumb is that anything that is less than a quarter sized is basic wear and tear unless it makes no sense (ie: holes in an appliance).

If the appliances work or the failures are within reason it's fine. But if it's been absolutely abused, perhaps you have reason to request they pay for repairs.

Most property managers I chat with generally have an agreement that the unit is nearly move-in ready but not completely. So bigger things like cleaning are billed to the tenant (former) with a third party receipt so it's essentially non-contestable (vs an invoice saying the property manager/owner spent 3 hours cleaning). But my guy likes to request the former tenant to fill in holes and he'll finish touching them up himself.

If there's any costs relating to deductions, ALWAYS go through a third party quote and agree on that. Don't go based on your ability to repair it yourself. It's far more solid footing and you don't want to waste a ton of time arguing over a few hundred bucks.


Check the cost of a brand new door, especially if it's a newer design. Assuming its an interior door and not an exterior door (which are idiotically expensive), it shouldn't be more than $200-300 for a nice pre-hung door and then perhaps another $200 ish for the labour to paint, replace and install with the old hardware. I just replaced over two dozen doors in my new home, so I was definitely blown away by the estimated price to refurbish vs replace doors. I also spent the extra to get solid core vs hollow core door and I wonder if it's worth considering for your. The price difference wasn't huge and the likelihood of someone breaking one of those things going forward plus the sound absorption difference was worth it IMO.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:16 AM   #31
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I would check storage spaces for left over stuff. Offer to help them move it to their car before they go. No such thing as a tennant who takes all their things with them.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern View Post
I know for sure one door has a golf ball sized hole in it, I was going to just price a door out and do it myself, but now reading this I might just get a quote from a supplier, primed painted hinged and handled ready to go. With a receipt to show for any disputes, will be much more expensive for the tenant unfortunately.
One place I rented the landlord was really good; and my room mate had punched a hole in the door right before we moved. Landlord told me he could either quote it out in the damage report, or I could just pay him a nominal amount and he'd just put another door in. Was something cheap like $40- so his cost for a door. You could try something similar.

Or if the tenant has been good, and the door is going to be under $100; note it in the report and give them their entire deposit back. Especially if that's all you need to do to re-rent.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:32 PM   #33
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I used to check for the follow, however all these items were 100% noted as part of the tenants responsibility in the lease agreement.

- inside of oven cleaned (rarely cleaned)
- inside of microwave cleaned (never cleaned)
- inside of fridge cleaned
- check both sides of all door for damage (they punched 2 holes in door including the backside of a closet which they didn't tell me)
- light bulbs (had a tenant move out with >50% of bulbs burnt out)
- max 4 anchors or pin holes per wall (had a tenant that created a 50 picture frame collage wall)
- countertop burns of cut marks
- check inside all closets as all sorts of #### gets left behind

Those were my picky items after getting burned by previous ####ty tenant. However good luck! Dealing with other people trashing your place is the worst. Happiest day of my life when I sold my rental property.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:46 PM   #34
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What do you do if something like the oven isnt cleaned? You pay someone to clean it and deduct the bill from the deposit?

Seems like such a weird thing, but youre right 4 years of use if its never been cleaned its going to need it.
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Old 02-18-2020, 01:55 PM   #35
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Our PM builds in a full apartment cleaning by a cleaning service into the deposit so they have to pay that up front when they sign the lease. Is that common or general practice?
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Old 02-18-2020, 03:20 PM   #36
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What do you do if something like the oven isnt cleaned? You pay someone to clean it and deduct the bill from the deposit?

Seems like such a weird thing, but youre right 4 years of use if its never been cleaned its going to need it.

I told them to clean it before they're exit walk through or else I'd be hiring a cleaning company to come in and deduct from their deposit. Again it was clearly stated in the move in documents and lease agreement, so no surprises to anyone.
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:25 PM   #37
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I would check storage spaces for left over stuff. Offer to help them move it to their car before they go. No such thing as a tennant who takes all their things with them.
"Sir...when are you returning to pick up all of these cuffs and chains?"
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:22 PM   #38
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What do you do if something like the oven isnt cleaned? You pay someone to clean it and deduct the bill from the deposit?

Seems like such a weird thing, but youre right 4 years of use if its never been cleaned its going to need it.
Stove top or oven? Oven I think you can easily turn on a clean mode and wipe the ashes away later, right? But if it's stove top, tell them to clean it properly or you'll charge a cleaning company to do it along with any other cleaning the cleaning co needs to do and deduct from the DD. I've even heard that sometimes,

As mentioned before, having this list of expectations when the rental agreement is signed so there's no surprises on move out is pretty important. Worth ensuring you do on the next tenant.

Worst case scenario, to avoid annoyances, you can just eat the cost of cleaning it yourself. Cleaning an induction stove top is pretty easy with some razor blades or utility knife blades for the truly caked on stuff and then wiping some basic stove top cleaner.

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Our PM builds in a full apartment cleaning by a cleaning service into the deposit so they have to pay that up front when they sign the lease. Is that common or general practice?
I've seen this before on a rental unit my wife (GF at the time) was renting i downtown Calgary. But the clause also stated this fee can be returned provided that you pass final walk through and you as the tenant can provide a satisfactory invoice showing you have had the unit professionally cleaned. The fee was quite high so we hired someone to do it for 1/4th of the price on the agreement by snagging someone who was already at the complex to do a different clean (We had already pre-cleaned ourselves and were mainly after the invoice).

The property manager was trying to be a dick though. Said it obviously
wasn't cleaned well enough by the people we hired based on the fee we paid and said they'd charge the fee to re-clean the entire unit properly. So we countered by saying we'd already taken pictures/video of the whole unit before and after cleaning. We'd give them hell unless they could provide the invoice of the cleaner they used AND photographic evidence that anything specific was cleaned in a superior manner to what had been done before.

"It's fine" was the email reply we received along with the full DD.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:55 PM   #39
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What do you do if something like the oven isnt cleaned? You pay someone to clean it and deduct the bill from the deposit?

Seems like such a weird thing, but youre right 4 years of use if its never been cleaned its going to need it.
I think the best guideline is whether or not you would feel comfortable renting the place to someone else in the condition your tenants leave the property.

A few marks on the wall etc is fine and most people wouldn't have an issue moving in to a place that isn't 100% perfect. An oven that is filthy is a different story.

You also have 10 days to return the deposit, so you can make sure you get invoices or quotes for any damage before giving your tenants the remainder.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:26 PM   #40
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10 days to summarize the balance owed for security deposit return.


30 days to return any outstanding money owed.
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