[SPOILERS] A Memory of Light : Wheel of Time Book 14 Discussion

[photon]

Finally finished the book and here's my non-spoiler review:

Well I'm glad that's finally over.



Spoiler filled review:

Overall I was pretty happy with how the book was done, pretty much what could have been expected I guess.

The time-stretching thing to be able to have an epic battle for everyone else while having Rand's encounter not take so much time as well was ok.

Overall I liked how the final battle was handled, massive and well paced, with the good guys going from handling things to being ground down. Lots of cool story lines in there.

And FINALLY someone realizes what a gateway could actually be capable of doing, why are they casting fire and earth when a gateway under the enemy could just drop them all into the middle of the ocean?

Rand's battle with the Dark One is a bit more disappointing, I liked the potential future realities thing and how Rand had to come to a realization that he couldn't just kill the Dark One, but after that I was underwhelmed, though really I can't really expect more. The DO had to be properly sealed in the end for the wheel to continue, but having to use the true power to seal things eamlessly kind of implies the true power was used to create things in the first place.

Too much deus ex machina as always... Egwene coming up with a brand new weave at the right time, etc..

Thought Nyneave deserved better/more in the last book. And Perrin to some extent.

Thought the consequences to the good guys should have been worse, not just in terms of people dying, but the consequences to the world and society, and Rand. Even Rand not being able to channel at the end (which makes no sense, channelling is something about the soul, not the body, which was explained earlier in the book) could have been dramatic, instead Rand can just imagine things and they happen now or something.

And the last chapter was the worst; which makes sense because I think that I read RJ wrote it, not Sanderson.

Rand being transferred into Moridin's body (again deus ex machina!)? Really? That was incredibly lame. And then he just takes off leaving his father and friends to think he's dead but giggling over how awesome he is because he has 3 chicks who he can have sex with?? Rand spent a huge portion of the books being a dick, but wow.

Oh and the big sacrifice Rand made? Turns out it's no sacrifice at all!

The characters in the last chapter go past being stereotyped into being stereotypes of stereotypes, I can't even put to works how bad the last chapter is.

Pretend Rand dies and remove that last chapter and it's a better book.

[The Coppernian One]

I agree with pretty much all of it, even the gateway bit. I was thinking why not drop dragon's eggs down on enemy armies from distant cities where they are being produced.

I also did a wtf moment when Rand was now in Moridin's body which no explanation of how that happened (was it there or did I miss it?). I would also have liked to have had some closure with Mat, Perrin and Nyneave. Morraine and Thom would have been good too.

The one that I really felt bad for was Tam. At least the women knew Rand was still alive. I was kind of hoping for an ending with Tam back on the farm at the Two Rivers and a stranger coming up the walk type of thing. Then they could have done the wind and the "an ending" ending (which I actually liked).

All in all I thought it was pretty good and will likely let the series sit on the shelf for a few years and then come back to it while I take on some other series.

[JerzeeGirl]

With so many loose ends to tie up, I thought it was a pretty good final book for a series that at one point I thought would never see an ending. I read it pretty fast but this is what stood out to me...

Egwene dying....seriously! One of my fave super-girls...who had some of the most awesome moments in the series overall once she came into her going down in literally a blaze of glory just felt unfair. I wanted her & Gawyn to grow old together while whipping the White Tower back into shape. I suppose you knew she had to die once Gawyn put on the Bloodknive's rings cuz you knew he would die but still....not cool!

Bela! Dead! Agh!

It felt like the entire battle happening within Shayol Ghul - for Rand, Nynaeve, Moiraine etc was just skimped on. Nynaeve was the deus ex machina to keep Alanna alive just long enuf to release Rand's bond so it didn't cripple him as he was fighting the Dark One? I know he needed 2 women there to help channel Callandor properly but still, compared to the vastness of battle outside the cave & elsewhere in the world, it was a bit boring....

Padan Fain's story line was a great big build up for a whole lotta nothing...I mean he's creating an army of zombie trollocs and then just goes down like a marshmallow? Granted it made sense that Matt would kill him but still, a serious let down when you realize that he never even had another confrontation with Rand after spending the prior 13 books raving about their coming confrontation.

The whole Black Tower storyline annoyed the crap outta me - Rand knew that Taim was rotten, knew that he left men in Taim's grasp that wouldn't be able to fight back against him and yet did nothing. Even if it was a trap - why didn't he do something to help the Asha'man? Or at least to get rid of Taim?

I thought it also sucked that Matt, Rand & Perrin never did get a chance to be together again before the "end". And to a smaller extent that the larger group with Nynaeve, Egwene, Loial, Aviendha & Min didn't either...would have been nice to see a reunion of some sort before all the shiz went down.

As for Rand becoming Moridin, it made sense to me in some ways - they were tied together in some kind of spiritual way following their balefire showdown in A Crown Of Swords. While Rand had to die to fulfill the Prophecies, this link and the fact that he, in essence, during the fight against the Dark One was representative of the Creator, would allow him to destroy Moridin and then take the husk of his body allowing the Dragon to die as well. The fact that he could light the pipe without channeling made me think he maintained the ability to manipulate the Pattern seen during his battle or that he was able to use the True Power now that the Dark One has been sealed away again. According to Sanderson, this epilogue was written almost entirely by Jordan and he said that Jordan had intended to leave certain things ambiguous and not give answers for everything.

I do wonder whether Rand will let Tam continue to believe he's dead...obviously Min, Aviendha & Elayne know he's still alive but whether it would be better to let the rest of the world think him dead (including his father) is definitely something to consider.

One of my fave moments in the entire book was probably Lan's charge to confront & kill Demandred...the mental picture of his ride and the path being cleared by burning arrows from the Two Rivers' bows...if they ever do make this series into a movie or mini-series, they better do this scene right as it was full of absolute awesomeness.

So much more to go over/thru but I think I want to read it again, a bit slower now just to find the things I skimmed over too quickly in my need to see what happened.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

About to finally start A Memory of Light tonight. A few months ago I went back and started rereading the series from the beginning again but it took me a little longer than expected so I missed being able to flow right into book 14 as it was released. I'll be back in a few weeks with my thoughts.

[AR_Six]

I am not reading the above posts, but if anyone knows if it's possible to get this on my nexus 7, let me know. I can't find it on google play market. PM me or whatever.

[JerzeeGirl]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

I am not reading the above posts, but if anyone knows if it's possible to get this on my nexus 7, let me know. I can't find it on google play market. PM me or whatever.

This isn't available as an ebook until April (or thereabouts) - Jordan's widow who edits the books didn't want to release the ebook at the same time as the hardcover as she was worried it would damage sales of the HC.

[Matata]

I love how Rand ended up with no responsibilities and Mat ended up with all the responsibilities.

I was kind of hoping for an extended LOTR style ending, but the abrupt end worked too (and really, they'd need an extra book to really wrap things up).

[JerzeeGirl]

Is it just me or would you like to have had some idea of what happened to Matt post-epic end of the world battle? I never thought Sanderson really got Matt's "voice" right when it came to writing the character but I'dve loved to see how things went with Tuon and re-building the Empire etc.

Equally sad is the fact that Sanderson has stated he will not write any more WoT related stories...there were so many more things that could have been stories on their own: Thom & Moiraine, the new Amyrlin & the cleansing of the Black Tower by Logain & Androl, the implementation of the Dragon's Peace & the Aiel's role including how Aviendha tried to prevent the destruction of her people, Shara!, more tales of the Heroes of the Horn, Olver's story, Lan & Nynaeve taking back Malkier, Talmanes & the Band of the Red Hand....

[Bobblehead]

Way too many things that were foreshadowed in early books that were forgotten, and with the conclusion was way too abrupt considering the glacial pacing of the middle of the series.

I smell more books coming.

And yeah, way too much deus ex machina.

Overall a disappointing ending to a series of I started reading 20 years ago.

[Bobblehead]

By the way - that mega chapter?

Just opened the document, as I figured I could give some hard statistics on this. The chapter is just shy of 79,000 words. It contains (by my quick count) 72 scenes–but only 31 distinct viewpoints, as numerous ones repeat. (There are eight Rand scenes, for example, and six each for Mat and Egwene. Three or four each for another eight characters.)

http://aidanmoher.com/blog/2012/12/a...er-viewpoints/

[JerzeeGirl]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Way too many things that were foreshadowed in early books that were forgotten, and with the conclusion was way too abrupt considering the glacial pacing of the middle of the series.

I smell more books coming.

And yeah, way too much deus ex machina.

Overall a disappointing ending to a series of I started reading 20 years ago.

Sorry you feel that way Bobble but out of curiousity, what foreshadowed things were you expecting that weren't covered by AMoL?

From what I could see most of the major plot points were covered (if only briefly/unsatisfactorily like Fain). Sanderson has also made a point of saying that there were things that Jordan specifically noted were to be left murky as he didn't want to wrap the series up in a bow - he wanted to make people think & theorize.

Some of this was addresssed in a Tor Chat he did:
- Jordan deliberately played up elements, foreseeings, and prophecies in the series that he knew were going to be minor.

- Jordan did not intend for the readers to see the discussion between Rand and Alivia regarding how she would “help him die.”

- To Jordan, RAFO didn’t always mean he was going to give the readers an answer. Rather, that he wanted readers to consider it on their own.

- There were no substantial notes left about doing a new series focused in Seanchan, and Brandon further feels that to do such a series would be exploiting RJ’s legacy.

[Bobblehead]

If by "left murky" he means "lots of room for more novels" then yes.

You know there will be something about Matt going back to Seanchan. Rand's sons. Future of the Aiel. Lan becoming a king. Perrin becoming a king. Black tower moving forward. The Sharans that only showed up for the final battle - there is a whole back history that can be explored there.

And far as foreshadowing, the one that springs to mind is Egwene. When she was first discovering that she was a dreamer she had a few foretelling dreams (first since the age of dreams! How that plot point fizzled), one which was her being held and then able to attack her captors because they didn't realize that she hadn't taken the oaths. I remembered that and waiting through books and books - and nothing.

The whole story became way too vast, too many things were added, and even with 3 books to wrap things up it still didn't seem like things wound down until this final book; and even then it seemed rushed.

Some of the books in the series, mainly the first 3, are well paced. But there was so much padding and posturing that it felt to me like the weight of the story just became too much and it collapsed. I don't mind Sanderson's writing style but it wasn't his story and it showed.

[photon]

Foreshadowing then nothing I think was unavoidable given the mess Jordan made of it and then having to wrap it all up in a few books.

I think I still prefer that to GRRM's "foreshadowing is directly correlated to the likelihood that the character will be killed off thus rendering even more of the preceding plot irrelevant."

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by JerzeeGirl

- Jordan deliberately played up elements, foreseeings, and prophecies in the series that he knew were going to be minor.

What a cop-out. This is a book. Don't make me waste my time reading endless plots that turn out to be minor.

Examples of things that ended up being unneeded or resolved poorly:

• There was no point to have to slog through pages about Morgase, only for her to be mentioned by name like once in the final book.
• Windfinders
• The Kin
• Anything involved Siuan and Gareth
• Rescuing Moraine only to have her barely be used or mentioned
• Berelain and Galad abruptly disappear from the book
• Egwene's much hyped dream powers
• The Tuatha'an
• PADAN FAIN
• FAILe

I think it's more likely that there was too many plots and too many characters tied up in this to ever be resolved properly, so they were just outright abandoned by the authors.

[GreenLantern]

Just finished it last night, great book, great series.. going to write this response before I read this thread so I have no outside influences on my opinion. I might be wrong on some of these things too so clairfication would be good.

In comparison to other series I have read it isn`t the best or most enjoyable, but it is still a great series in its own way. There are definitely a lot of 'conveinent' (lazy writing) parts that had me going wtf? Really? But if you take that for what it is, it was still fun to read.

The ending confused me, so they put Rand in Moridin's body.. but don't a lot of people know what the Forsaken looks like? Especially since he was laying in the tent next to Rand for a long time? He will end up with an Aiel spear in his gut after they hunt him down for being reported missing. But Rand doesn't wield the power anymore, he just creates stuff ? Is he the creator? Smokes this impossible pipe, what does that mean? And why the hell did he leave his poor Dad to think he was dead. There is no more danger for his Dad now, no one will come after him. If there was one time in this whole series where it was SAFE for people to believe the Dragon Reborn was alive, isn't this it?

I loved Mat's part but I found his whole battle plan stuff confusing, it seemed like he had some great master plan that fell apart in the end or wasn't enough. I guess it was good enough given the odds they faced? I wanted the book to end with Mat struggle humping Tuon that stuck up b word. Man does she piss me off.

Perrin got the shaft, I thought he had a lot to do in this book but it seemed like the same old crap, fight Luc, lose, fight Luc, lose... I would have much rather wished for a drawn out final show down than I AM MAD NOW I CAN KILL!

And the parts with Demandred where he just duels person after person, lol.. that almost had me laughing out loud. Horrible.

I liked how they went from person to person on the battle field, getting kick backs to people like Uno and what not, that was really neat. Given the massive cast of characters they included a lot which was great. I hate how some were brought right to the brink of death and miraculously saved, while others who seemed like they could have been saved were killed. It was so random, but with the one power I guess it is hard to right a logical story line.

So much other stuff that will come to me, but no need to make this a novel.. overall great series. Enjoyed it all even the boring books were good in the long run.

One last thing, Aluvia or Alivia whatever her name is "She will help you die" Min says, wtf? So she gets him some coins and new clothes and thats it? Doesn't that seem like a cheap way out of that whole prophecy?