Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 10-20-2021, 05:58 PM   #1
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default Misinformation

Did anyone else just get 3 shiny pamphlets from the JCCF on Covid stuffed in their mailbox? This is infuriating. It's bad enough this trash exists on the internet, now they are handing out "information" flyers that look official, that are bound to confuse and misinform people.


Are their any laws against this sort of thing? I'd really like to file a complaint somewhere, this is going to make controlling covid all that much more difficult.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2021, 06:07 PM   #2
VladtheImpaler
Franchise Player
 
VladtheImpaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

I strongly urge you to write to your local Party secretary, so that it can be brought up at the next Joint Plenum for consideration by the Central Committee.
__________________
Cordially as always,
Vlad the Impaler

Please check out http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...94#post3726494

VladtheImpaler is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to VladtheImpaler For This Useful Post:
Old 10-20-2021, 06:08 PM   #3
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

They were kind enough to give us their address while asking for funds. Somehow this ####hole group has non-profit status?

https://goo.gl/maps/jPYZDYdo4Nx6Pnk27

This is the guy who hired a private investigator to follow a judge around.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2021, 06:13 PM   #4
CaptainYooh
Franchise Player
 
CaptainYooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler View Post
I strongly urge you to write to your local Party secretary, so that it can be brought up at the next Joint Plenum for consideration by the Central Committee.
Yes! 1000 times yes!
__________________
"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." Georg Hegel
“To generalize is to be an idiot.” William Blake
CaptainYooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2021, 07:47 PM   #5
topfiverecords
Franchise Player
 
topfiverecords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
Exp:
Default

What’s the JCCF? I fear googling it.
topfiverecords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2021, 08:24 PM   #6
Yamer
Franchise Player
 
Yamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topfiverecords View Post
What’s the JCCF? I fear googling it.
Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.

Think of it as a pyramid scheme. The JCCF, as a semi-serious "law" organization, grifts from people like Kevin Johnston, Chris Sky, Chris Scott, Pat King, etc., who in turn grift from vulnerable people to support "the movement", who also in turn feed into the 2nd level grifters by appealing to 'muh freedoms'.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)

"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
Yamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2021, 08:43 PM   #7
troutman
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
 
troutman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
Exp:
Default

Check out Skeptic Check: Science Denial [rebroadcast]

https://radio.seti.org/episodes/skep...science-denial

Quote:
Climate change isn’t happening. Vaccines make you sick. When it comes to threats to public or environmental health, a surprisingly large fraction of the population still denies the consensus of scientific evidence. But it’s not the first time – many people long resisted the evidentiary link between HIV and AIDS and smoking with lung cancer. There’s a sense that science denialism is on the rise. It prompted a gathering of scientists and historians in New York City to discuss the problem, which included a debate on the usefulness of the word “denial” itself. Big Picture Science was there. We report from the Science Denial symposium held jointly by the New York Academy of Sciences and Rutgers Global Health Institute. Find out why so many people dig in their heels and distrust scientific findings
__________________
https://www.mergenlaw.com/
http://cjsw.com/program/fossil-records/
twitter/instagram @troutman1966

Last edited by troutman; 10-20-2021 at 09:37 PM.
troutman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to troutman For This Useful Post:
Old 10-21-2021, 09:42 AM   #8
DoubleF
Franchise Player
 
DoubleF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Exp:
Default

I did a cursory glance for about 15-20 minutes and this is what I noticed.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...rectorate.html

This link is for reporting charities. Based in what I see in general, there's nothing that really sticks out as a way to legitimately report them to the CRA. Unfortunately, it seems like they are on side, but just being open about discussing the other side of topics that we don't agree with and perhaps in a manner we don't agree with. I even read their T3010 and on casual glance it seems innocuous to me.

I then read their wiki and took a cursory glance at their website. No major red flags.

From what I understand from what I read, they are basically contrarians who argue on the behalf of certain groups in Canada. Their sole focus is legally challenging situations on humans rights and constitutional freedoms where things might not have been done correctly because people didn't like the topic being discussed. Whether they agree or not is seemingly not important, akin to the way Voltaire was like. But this was just an understanding based on a cursory glance.

Wilson v University of Calgary for instance went to the Court of Queen's Bench where it was ruled the University Board of Governors lacked justification to refuse a hearing for the students appealing their academic misconduct. I thought that group was a bunch of morons with their genocide awareness project stuff, but I think JCCF was right in bringing forth that the University Board of Governors could not refuse a hearing for the appeal of academic misconduct and should have done the process properly.

Apparently JCCF represented a few salons against Jessica Yaniv as well.

Additionally, they seem to enjoy using the method of acting as intervenor in court cases to have their position on the legal questions brought before the court without actually being the official legal counsel for the individuals and organizations.

I don't disagree that the JCCF message and who they represent really bugs me and rubs me the wrong way. But it does seem that they are legitimate in their operations at first glance and their mandate is objectively appropriate and important in ensuring due process in certain legal cases.

I think your only discourse would be to go to the media about it, but in that situation, you're seemingly just playing into their hands. *Shrugs*
DoubleF is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DoubleF For This Useful Post:
Old 10-21-2021, 09:51 AM   #9
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default




This is one example of the BS. ICU's at a 5 year low? Just blatant lies, but people will read this, and start second guessing, which is the goal of these ####faces.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
Old 10-21-2021, 09:53 AM   #10
Yamer
Franchise Player
 
Yamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
Exp:
Default

I always take a law firm more seriously when I notice a large merchandising section.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)

"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
Yamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2021, 12:09 PM   #11
VladtheImpaler
Franchise Player
 
VladtheImpaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

I do not like JCCF politics to a large extent, but organizations like that ensure that the rule of law is upheld for everyone, and not just for people we like. ACLU played this role in the US back in the day when they sided with Larry Flynt and.... the Nazi guy whose name escapes me.
__________________
Cordially as always,
Vlad the Impaler

Please check out http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...94#post3726494

VladtheImpaler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2021, 12:16 PM   #12
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

The JCCF sends me two letters a year like clockwork because they deem me 'an uncompensated victim of crime.'
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
Old 10-21-2021, 12:31 PM   #13
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler View Post
I do not like JCCF politics to a large extent, but organizations like that ensure that the rule of law is upheld for everyone, and not just for people we like. ACLU played this role in the US back in the day when they sided with Larry Flynt and.... the Nazi guy whose name escapes me.
But the JCCF is disingenuous. Facts matter. If you can't start from a grounding of basics facts, then whatever your doing is inherently flawed. Worse than that, it's dangerous becuase it misleads people as to what the fundamental problems are. FI they were fighting from a position of honesty, I'd agree with you. They are not. They are basically the Rebel Media of law. Neither should exist in a democracy, because facts are the basis of our decisions.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
Old 10-22-2021, 06:19 AM   #14
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF View Post
I did a cursory glance for about 15-20 minutes and this is what I noticed.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...rectorate.html

This link is for reporting charities. Based in what I see in general, there's nothing that really sticks out as a way to legitimately report them to the CRA. Unfortunately, it seems like they are on side, but just being open about discussing the other side of topics that we don't agree with and perhaps in a manner we don't agree with. I even read their T3010 and on casual glance it seems innocuous to me.

I then read their wiki and took a cursory glance at their website. No major red flags.

From what I understand from what I read, they are basically contrarians who argue on the behalf of certain groups in Canada. Their sole focus is legally challenging situations on humans rights and constitutional freedoms where things might not have been done correctly because people didn't like the topic being discussed. Whether they agree or not is seemingly not important, akin to the way Voltaire was like. But this was just an understanding based on a cursory glance.

Wilson v University of Calgary for instance went to the Court of Queen's Bench where it was ruled the University Board of Governors lacked justification to refuse a hearing for the students appealing their academic misconduct. I thought that group was a bunch of morons with their genocide awareness project stuff, but I think JCCF was right in bringing forth that the University Board of Governors could not refuse a hearing for the appeal of academic misconduct and should have done the process properly.

Apparently JCCF represented a few salons against Jessica Yaniv as well.

Additionally, they seem to enjoy using the method of acting as intervenor in court cases to have their position on the legal questions brought before the court without actually being the official legal counsel for the individuals and organizations.

I don't disagree that the JCCF message and who they represent really bugs me and rubs me the wrong way. But it does seem that they are legitimate in their operations at first glance and their mandate is objectively appropriate and important in ensuring due process in certain legal cases.

I think your only discourse would be to go to the media about it, but in that situation, you're seemingly just playing into their hands. *Shrugs*

Assuming the screenshot Fuzz posted is from this same organization then they seem to be doing different things than you state.

The legal stuff you mention is fine. Distasteful in who they support but can be a needed element as you mention. But sending out misinformation has nothing to do with what you are talking about.
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PeteMoss For This Useful Post:
Old 10-22-2021, 07:33 AM   #15
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
Assuming the screenshot Fuzz posted is from this same organization then they seem to be doing different things than you state.

The legal stuff you mention is fine. Distasteful in who they support but can be a needed element as you mention. But sending out misinformation has nothing to do with what you are talking about.
So I was looking at these things again, and there are 3 flyers. 1 is from the JCCF, the other 2 are endlockdowncanada.com. I had thought they were all the same. So that screenshot is from the latter. But the JCCF isn't much better.





I mean, come on. The lockdowns are not the reason for surgeries being canceled, they are the solution to it. It's just a packet of lies dressed up as facts.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 08:18 AM   #16
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Inetrview with Fauci on misinformation:


https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-d...218070?cmp=rss
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 08:44 AM   #17
nfotiu
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
Exp:
Default

In contrast, here is ACLU's take on vaccine mandates.

https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-libe...eres-our-take/

Quote:
While the permissibility of requiring vaccines for particular diseases depends on several factors, when it comes to Covid-19, all considerations point in the same direction. The disease is highly transmissible, serious and often lethal; the vaccines are safe and effective; and crucially there is no equally effective alternative available to protect public health.

In fact, far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties. They protect the most vulnerable among us, including people with disabilities and fragile immune systems, children too young to be vaccinated and communities of color hit hard by the disease.
nfotiu is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to nfotiu For This Useful Post:
Old 10-22-2021, 09:07 AM   #18
VladtheImpaler
Franchise Player
 
VladtheImpaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

This is not your daddy's ACLU.
__________________
Cordially as always,
Vlad the Impaler

Please check out http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...94#post3726494

VladtheImpaler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 10:22 AM   #19
DoubleF
Franchise Player
 
DoubleF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
Assuming the screenshot Fuzz posted is from this same organization then they seem to be doing different things than you state.

The legal stuff you mention is fine. Distasteful in who they support but can be a needed element as you mention. But sending out misinformation has nothing to do with what you are talking about.
I will admit I didn't really pay attention to the brochure pic that Fuzz had originally posted. I focused on the stuff of the same topic they had on the JCCF website. I just did a cursory glance. I'm not doing a well researched news article or social essay on one.

I will say again though, the JCCF does based on my cursory glance employ a method that allows them to loudly repeat the messages of their clients, but also distance themselves and claim they are not direct representatives of the message via the intervenor rule.

I've poked around some of these types of things before. Many think that because there's drivel on these pamphlets that the mind behind creating them is one of a moron. That's not necessarily true. Most people will just throw them away, but I poked around some of them when I was in University and realized that some of them have been specially curated in a manner that gives them slight "legal Teflon". It's underhanded and skeezy AF when sometimes, the legal argument that is made is that "There's spelling errors on this pamphlet. No educated individual would take this seriously. Just consider it a lack of judgement from young students." (Or whoever they use to relay the message).

There's several things that can be done to pretend people accidentally interpreted things differently than what the groups were trying to say. I've dealt with people like this before and they are infuriating. Essentially they play a, "It's not misinformation. It's misunderstood by the masses." card that frustratingly actually holds up. We obviously know what the intention of the statement is, but it's also cleverly gutless of a method to avoid getting in trouble so that people cannot block them from distributing the materials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
So I was looking at these things again, and there are 3 flyers. 1 is from the JCCF, the other 2 are endlockdowncanada.com. I had thought they were all the same. So that screenshot is from the latter. But the JCCF isn't much better.


*snip*

I mean, come on. The lockdowns are not the reason for surgeries being canceled, they are the solution to it. It's just a packet of lies dressed up as facts.
Ugh... gross. I've seen this style on other pamphlets before. Assuming it's the same underhanded style, the distributor essentially argues we misread the information.

Their argument is basically this: That first run-on sentence is "off topic" and intended to frame a specific emotion. It is not directly related to the topic heading and the last sentence. Obviously we know it's heavily implied the sentences are associated, but if you try and call it out, these type of people often say that the first part just talks about death and struggles in general, and they are not specifically implying that the surgeries are directly being affected by the lockdowns.

I cannot confirm if they are doing this specifically on this pamphlet. But if the JCCF is full of lawyers, I cannot help but think this thing is embedded with methods to avoid getting in legal trouble, but it's also a trap that they want someone to try and get them in trouble for it so that they can put it on a pedestal and get an easy win and piss people off. They're not that dumb is my assumption.

I honestly would not be surprised if the fact that "it just so happens" that their brochure is distributed with an "arms length party that is disseminating actual misguided information, but JCCF's is just misunderstood, but not misinformation" is a tactic that is actively being deployed. The JCCF website doesn't mention a partnership with endcanadalockdowns, but that website diverts to strong and free website which lists JCCF as a partner. I didn't check the JCCF website to see if strong and free is a partner, but I seem to recall the wording of the JCCF website is very careful not to openly list partnerships.

Last edited by DoubleF; 10-22-2021 at 10:25 AM.
DoubleF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2021, 02:07 PM   #20
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Twitter’s algorithms are more likely to amplify right-wing politicians than left-wing ones because their tweets generate more outrage, according to a trio of researchers from New York University’s Center for Social Media and Politics.
Quote:
“Why would Twitter’s algorithms promote conservative politicians? Our research suggests an unlikely but plausible reason: It’s because they get dunked on so much,” they wrote in a op-ed in the Washington Post. Twitter users are more likely to react and retweet their posts, which means these posts are more likely to end up on people’s timelines.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/30/in_brief_ai/


Algorithms do exactly what they are designed to. It's just not great for society.
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:45 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021