Colten Bushie murder trial

[Ashasx]

This is a sad story, but one thing that's really bugging me about this is that many comments on Twitter and from media personalities in support of Colten iare claiming an injustice in the regard of racism. That is, Gerald Stanley committed a hate crime.

...what?

I can fully understand why some people could feel the jury got it wrong here. But why is this racism? Simply because it involves a white person and a racial minority?

There is no evidence that Gerald Stanley sought to shoot a racial minority. He didn't seek the person out. The person came to him on his property.

He could very well have been in the wrong to shoot somebody if they weren't a threat to his personal safety, but it is absolutely infuriating that racism has to be the prime topic of this event.

The demand for racism in this country far exceeds the supply.

[powderjunkie]

All the talk about inconsistent witness testimony is missing out on a big thing - it's culturally taboo for certain FN's to speak the name/mime the actions/re-enact the deaths of people. I can't explain it well, but it is obviously not common knowledge and these cultural practices do not fair well in our legal system.

Not saying anything is right/wrong, but there is a lot more to the witness testimony issues than them having been 'drunk'

[Cowboy89]

Personally I'm heartened by this decision. Like the Ghomeshi trial decision, it's good to know that the justice system is still capable of parsing through due process and assess a verdict based only on the evidence presented. If the courts were captured by the blowing winds of public opinion it would have been all too easy to convict Stanley. Then the only thing keeping anyone out of jail would be public opinion, which is a far scarier prospect than the odd guilty person being let free.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Nyah

I don't really have much to add except it's a sad and unfortunate situation all around. The kid shouldn't have lost his life. The farmer shouldn't have shouldn't have had his & his families life irreparably changed. I'm not going to tout that I did stupid stuff like this as a kid, but neither did I grow up in circumstances that Colten Bushie did. I have no idea what his life was like, or what he was dealing with. I'm not naive to the fact that growing up on a First Nation reserve no doubt has a slew of challenges for kids that I would have never had to deal with. So I don't judge him. I also don't blame Mr. Stanley for his actions either. He thought his family was in danger, and I can't say that me, or my loved ones would have acted any differently. It's tough. We don't know whether he'd faced similar situations in the past either. So I can't judge him.

I think it's absolutely possible and even necessary to have empathy for both parties here. It's easy to assign blame, and I think it's lazy. For me the take-away, is that we really owe our First Nations youth more. We need to make it a priority to help these kids overcome obstacles they may be facing. My sisters friend worked as a counselor for First Nations youth, and it's not easy for them. For many, their whole lives are surrounded by addiction, violence, and a general distrust of those outside the reserve. A lot of them don't stand a chance in the world outside their reserve (and even on it). We have to do better by them.

Evidently not.

If we take away the fact that the kid was a Native does anyone really see this having a significantly different end result?

I find that hes getting off lightly having more to do with the fact that the testimony against him for his part in all of this is pretty flimsy at best all the way to straight-up unreliable.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Locke

Evidently not.

If we take away the fact that the kid was a Native does anyone really see this having a significantly different end result?

I find that hes getting off lightly having more to do with the fact that the testimony against him for his part in all of this is pretty flimsy at best all the way to straight-up unreliable.

Stop calling him a kid. He was a 22 year old man.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Stop calling him a kid. He was a 22 year old man.

The rest of the adults were 18-24.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Stop calling him a kid. He was a 22 year old man.

Point taken.

[icecube]

Gerald Stanley's gofundme is up to 100K. After his legal fees are paid he will have made money for killing a human being. Think about that for a minute.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

All the talk about inconsistent witness testimony is missing out on a big thing - it's culturally taboo for certain FN's to speak the name/mime the actions/re-enact the deaths of people. I can't explain it well, but it is obviously not common knowledge and these cultural practices do not fair well in our legal system.

Not saying anything is right/wrong, but there is a lot more to the witness testimony issues than them having been 'drunk'

This is gold medal mental gymnastics.

They admitted on the stand, under oath, to lying in police statements and lying under oath at the preliminary hearing. Not to mention the stories changing, or the admission that they were drunk

It has nothing to do with their cultural beliefs.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by icecube

Gerald Stanley's gofundme is up to 100K. After his legal fees are paid he will have made money for killing a human being. Think about that for a minute.

Do you think his life was made better as a result of these events?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

He could very well have been in the wrong to shoot somebody if they weren't a threat to his personal safety, but it is absolutely infuriating that racism has to be the prime topic of this event.

The demand for racism in this country far exceeds the supply.

Did you read the general Hate speech coming out of Saskatchewan after this incident occurred? The racism exists. An elected official said that the only problem was leaving witnesses. The social media posts around this were disgusting.

Within the last 20 years Saskatoon cops murdered Native men by dropping them off outside the city drunk to walk home in the winter.

Was this event motivated by racism? I don't believe so. Was the investigation tainted by racism, probably. Was Stanley's defense funded by racists? Absolutely.

Race became an issue not because of the media but because of the number of white people who legitimately believe it was okay to shoot an Indian.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by icecube

Gerald Stanley's gofundme is up to 100K. After his legal fees are paid he will have made money for killing a human being. Think about that for a minute.

I’m assuming you have a source that gives you insight into what this is cost so far and what it will cost in the future, not just the legal fees either?

Or, as I suspect, you’re just spouting nonsense to be edgy.

[Bownesian]

For me (firearms owner, farmer relative), the correct minimum verdict would have been manslaughter. In regards to the manslaughter charge, it's immaterial for me whether there was a hang fire, whether there was a round in the chamber and Stanley pulled the trigger by accident, or whether he pulled it on purpose and lied.

Firearms are to be considered loaded and lethal until you personally verify that the chamber is open and empty (that's how I was taught by my Dad, and then reinforced in my FAC course). The muzzle of a loaded gun is never to be pointed at anything other than the ground, the air, or something you mean to shoot at.

As an aside, I have actually had a potential hang fire personally. I was deer hunting at the end of a long day in minus 20 temperatures. I found a deer, stalked him, lined up the shot, clicked off the safety, pulled the trigger and nothing happened. A half-second later, I lifted the barrel a bit to figure out what happened and the gun went off. Now, I don't know if it was a slow burn hang fire or something in the trigger was frozen or the bolt of my rifle wasn't totally down and I clipped the trigger when lifting the muzzle or whatever. It was my job to keep the gun pointed somewhere safe until the bolt was open and it was Stanley's job as well.

Because Mr. Stanley did not maintain control of his muzzle, he was negligent and was responsible.

I have all sorts of sympathy for people living on farms (knowing how far it is from my family farm to the RCMP detachment) and I know that there are all sorts of lies in this trial.

Stanley wasn't planning on target shooting later that day, he had a loaded gun in the house like a large number of farmers have. Similarly, the people in the SUV weren't looking for a phone to make a call to fix a flat. Stanley may have had a misfire (which the jury believed was a possibility) or he may have pointed the gun and lied about it - we'll never know. We do know that by his own admission, he pulled the trigger and because he didn't control his gun, someone died. That's manslaughter.

I hope there is ground for appeal and that Stanley loses on that count.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by GGG

Did you read the general Hate speech coming out of Saskatchewan after this incident occurred? The racism exists. An elected official said that the only problem was leaving witnesses. The social media posts around this were disgusting.

Within the last 20 years Saskatoon cops murdered Native men by dropping them off outside the city drunk to walk home in the winter.

Was this event motivated by racism? I don't believe so. Was the investigation tainted by racism, probably. Was Stanley's defense funded by racists? Absolutely.

So again, what evidence or inclination is there that Stanley's actions were fueled my racist motivations?

Originally Posted by GGG

Race became an issue not because of the media but because of the number of white people who legitimately believe it was okay to shoot an Indian.

How many white Canadians to you think truly feel this way?

[icecube]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

How about empathy for Mr. Stanley and his family. Their lives were forever changed when a rolling crime spree made its way onto his property that day. The crime spree could have ended in any number of negative outcomes; a car crash because they were all severely intoxicated and driving a vehicle with a flat tire, being arrested because they were committing numerous crimes, being shot by police because they had a loaded firearm in the car. And thats not to even mention the potential harm to persons in the public and property of innocent residents. The participants in the crime spree made decisions to act in the manner they did. They chose to commit crimes and put themselves and others at risk. Mr. Stanley didnt wake up that morning and decide to go on a crime spree. He was put in a dangerous situation that he didnt chose to be in.

A lot of people thanking the empathy for Gerald Stanley post and very few calling for empathy for the family of Colten Boushie or the indigenous community. They are dealing with all sorts of vile racist comments and threats the past 72 hours. This whole thing disgusts me as human being. Yet people will not admit it has anything to do with racism. Excuse me while I vomit.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by icecube

Gerald Stanley's gofundme is up to 100K. After his legal fees are paid he will have made money for killing a human being. Think about that for a minute.

It's not a bountygate collection website. Saying that he's gonna make a profit is as disingenuous and ridiculous as saying that Boushie family is getting a swank travel and media tour around Canada.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

For me (firearms owner, farmer relative), the correct minimum verdict would have been manslaughter. In regards to the manslaughter charge, it's immaterial for me whether there was a hang fire, whether there was a round in the chamber and Stanley pulled the trigger by accident, or whether he pulled it on purpose and lied.

Firearms are to be considered loaded and lethal until you personally verify that the chamber is open and empty (that's how I was taught by my Dad, and then reinforced in my FAC course). The muzzle of a loaded gun is never to be pointed at anything other than the ground, the air, or something you mean to shoot at.

As an aside, I have actually had a potential hang fire personally. I was deer hunting at the end of a long day in minus 20 temperatures. I found a deer, stalked him, lined up the shot, clicked off the safety, pulled the trigger and nothing happened. A half-second later, I lifted the barrel a bit to figure out what happened and the gun went off. Now, I don't know if it was a slow burn hang fire or something in the trigger was frozen or the bolt of my rifle wasn't totally down and I clipped the trigger when lifting the muzzle or whatever. It was my job to keep the gun pointed somewhere safe until the bolt was open and it was Stanley's job as well.

Because Mr. Stanley did not maintain control of his muzzle, he was negligent and was responsible.

I have all sorts of sympathy for people living on farms (knowing how far it is from my family farm to the RCMP detachment) and I know that there are all sorts of lies in this trial.

Stanley wasn't planning on target shooting later that day, he had a loaded gun in the house like a large number of farmers have. Similarly, the people in the SUV weren't looking for a phone to make a call to fix a flat. Stanley may have had a misfire (which the jury believed was a possibility) or he may have pointed the gun and lied about it - we'll never know. We do know that by his own admission, he pulled the trigger and because he didn't control his gun, someone died. That's manslaughter.

I hope there is ground for appeal and that Stanley loses on that count.

I'm not a "gun guy" so pardon my ignorance, but on the radio a few minutes ago, they were saying he wasn't sure how many bullets he had loaded. He fired two warning shots and then fired a third and the gun didn't go off. He took the clip out and after that he pointed it at Boushies head and it went off. I don't know if that's accurate, but that's the chronology given by Rob Breakenridge a few minutes ago. Does that change things, in your view? I have to say that it does in mine. If he pulled the trigger and nothing happened, and he took the clip out, he obviously didn't plan on killing this guy?

[Kjesse]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...case-1.4519655

Here's an article outlining according to the CBC what his testimony highlights were.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by chemgear

It's not a bountygate collection website. Saying that he's gonna make a profit is as disingenuous and ridiculous as saying that Boushie family is getting a swank travel and media tour around Canada.

A lot of that money was given by racist people. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Who is willing to admit it though?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by icecube

A lot of people thanking the empathy for Gerald Stanley post and very few calling for empathy for the family of Colten Boushie or the indigenous community. They are dealing with all sorts of vile racist comments and threats the past 72 hours. This whole thing disgusts me as human being. Yet people will not admit it has anything to do with racism. Excuse me while I vomit.

The comments I see on twitter calling Stanley a racist, white supremacist bigot outnumber these comments 1000 to 1.