09-15-2020, 03:02 PM
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#741
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Uranus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
I'm always amazed how much Hartley is romanticized in this city.
He was pretty much pulled off the scrap heap to coach in an era where they had no expectations.
I appreciated his play with the media, and the fact the team worked hard but they were massively overplayed through his entire tenure.
Even the playoffs series against Vancouver, which was the best draw a 2nd place team could get in my memory wasn't a concise Flames win.
in that series the Flames had 45% of the shot attempts (five on five), 47% of the xGF%, and 48% of the high danger chances. They were ... out played.
He got the result, and you can't take that away from him, but not so sure it was exemplary coaching. If Vancouver got any goaltending in that series it has a different out come.
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I have no love lost for Hartley at all - his systems were certainly not sustainable in the long run, but I think the Dallas stars, Capitals and Penguins may have something to say about this. The last 5 cup winners SAT% during their cup runs: 50.7%, 48.8%, 46.1%, 51.6%, 51.1%. The Stars are currently at 48.% and took out the league leader in Vegas who were at 58.9%.
Most of these teams were nowhere near the best SAT% teams, and often times were closer to the bottom than the top ranked teams. There's something to be said about a lot of these figures being great evaluating tools (which they are), but I feel they are being massively overvalued right now at the same time when it comes to winning in the post-season.
__________________
I hate to tell you this, but I’ve just launched an air biscuit
Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 09-15-2020 at 03:08 PM.
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09-15-2020, 03:16 PM
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#742
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus
I have no love lost for Hartley at all - his systems were certainly not sustainable in the long run, but I think the Dallas stars, Capitals and Penguins may have something to say about this. The last 5 cup winners SAT% during their cup runs: 50.7%, 48.8%, 46.1%, 51.6%, 51.1%. The Stars are currently at 48.% and took out the league leader in Vegas who were at 58.9%.
Most of these teams were nowhere near the best SAT% teams, and often times were closer to the bottom than the top ranked teams. There's something to be said about a lot of these figures being great evaluating tools (which they are), but I feel they are being massively overvalued right now at the same time when it comes to winning in the post-season.
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That's fair ... and I guess sample size has to be considered as well. When you are doing a ranking of 16 teams who play an average of what 12 games each in the post season it gets tough to nail down.
A hot goaltender and/or powerplay can cover a lot of warts.
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09-15-2020, 04:06 PM
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#743
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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I like advanced stats, and think they can show some insights and help analyze the performance of players within a team over a long sample size or over the course of a season, but the one thing I think advanced stats truly show is just how close the NHL actually is, and that in small sample sizes (which a 5/7 game series is) it's really a toss up.
For example over the last two seasons (152 games) the best team in CF% is 54.6% and the worst team is 46.2%. And over the course of 152 games that is a big difference but in a single game (or even 7 games) the difference is negligible.
On average there are 110 shot attempts per game - which means that if those two teams play each other the "best team" shot attempts are 59 shots and the worst team would have 51 shots. So that works out to 8 shot attempts over the course of a whole game. That probably translates to about 2 shots on goal more for the "best team" over the "worst team".
So in one game or even a sample of 5 games it's not going make a big difference, because goaltending/shooting percentage/special teams is going to drive a much larger variance in that single game.
Doesn't mean advanced stats are bad or useless, just means that like any statistic the variance in a small sample size is going be drastic. And really a 7 game series is a small sample size.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 09-15-2020 at 04:09 PM.
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09-15-2020, 04:15 PM
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#744
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford
I'm shocked. Absolutely SHOCKED that Treliving didn't look at anyone else.
P
R
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C
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S
S
LMAO. What a joke.
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No interviewing does not mean they didn't look at others.
All the information on these coaches are available via via and through contacts within the league. Treliving was also trained by Burke who has stated when hiring people the interview is the final stage and it is to confirm the decision you have already made; that the interview will not win anyone a job, but it can lose them one.
The only joke is people thinking formal interviews for NHL coaches are actually important.
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09-15-2020, 05:29 PM
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#745
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
The parameters surrounding when, how long and often they were "rebuilding" are likely subjective, but David Poile has been the only GM in Nashville's history.
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Good one. He has probably never really "rebuilt". He built a winner with the Capitals and built a solid team in Nashville without tearing down and starting over. Which Treliving would probably say is exactly what he is trying to do here.
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09-15-2020, 06:19 PM
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#746
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Good one. He has probably never really "rebuilt". He built a winner with the Capitals and built a solid team in Nashville without tearing down and starting over. Which Treliving would probably say is exactly what he is trying to do here.
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I certainly think that is how Treliving wants to frame it. And with this ownership group and the Canadian market added pressure to be playing in tbe playoffs he may have a pretty good case. If I were Treliving I would definitely be preaching patience over the long run, and drawing from examples like Poile in contrast to the endless management debacle in Edmonton and Florida.
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09-15-2020, 06:50 PM
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#747
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cowtown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
I certainly think that is how Treliving wants to frame it. And with this ownership group and the Canadian market added pressure to be playing in tbe playoffs he may have a pretty good case. If I were Treliving I would definitely be preaching patience over the long run, and drawing from examples like Poile in contrast to the endless management debacle in Edmonton and Florida.
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Totally agreed, I'd also say it takes a well above average GM to do it successfully. Its not every day a Forsberg for Erat trade comes up, and Poile pounced on it. I think Tre is a smart guy, and hopefully he has learned from his past whiffed trades and signings. I'm willing to give him more time as he has the team trending (long term) in the right direction.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
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09-15-2020, 06:57 PM
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#748
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That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Every fan has the right to support or not support their team. I stopped being a Rockets fan many years ago, due to the culmination of many decisions the team made.
I don't look down on those that make this decision - it's up to each person.
But either do it or don't do it. The constant false promises of "that's it for me" are more irritating than the actual reality of some fans choosing to stop rooting for this club.
At least from my POV.
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Rockets?
Kelowna? Houston? The disappointing Halloween candy?
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09-15-2020, 07:24 PM
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#749
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
Rockets?
Kelowna? Houston? The disappointing Halloween candy?
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Houston
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09-15-2020, 07:33 PM
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#750
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
Rockets?
Kelowna? Houston? The disappointing Halloween candy?
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HEEEEEEY! I used to love getting those on halloween....
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09-15-2020, 07:41 PM
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#751
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Powerplay Quarterback
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I'm expecting the same or less result from Ward. Not good on scoring and not bad on defense. Never will control the game, but usually survive some games. Everybody will have everage career year. Fight for playoffs and may stay outside. In short this will be classic Flames season.
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09-15-2020, 08:49 PM
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#752
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: So Long, Bannatyne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
HEEEEEEY! I used to love getting those on halloween....
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Well, that makes ONE of us.
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09-15-2020, 08:58 PM
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#753
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
HEEEEEEY! I used to love getting those on halloween....
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Used to? I am ashamed to admit that I may have at one time or another bought a big bag before Hallowe'en ...
... and never actually managed to distribute or share any of them.
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Last edited by Textcritic; 09-15-2020 at 09:15 PM.
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09-15-2020, 09:03 PM
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#754
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
Used to? I am ashamed to admit that I may have at one time bought a big bag before Hallowe'en ...
... and never actually managed to distribute or share any of them.
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LOL. I've been known to pick them out of my niece and nephew's candy bags on more than a few occasions....
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09-15-2020, 09:36 PM
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#755
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
Used to? I am ashamed to admit that I may have at one time or another bought a big bag before Hallowe'en ...
... and never actually managed to distribute or share any of them.
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No shame in that. They are delicious and it's wonderful when you let them melt in your mouth.
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09-15-2020, 10:58 PM
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#756
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Houston
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Were you posting on Rockets message boards, calling talk radio, paying to see games etc.? I’m guessing not and so I understand how one can switch allegiances in that situation.
It’s the fans that do all the above and want to proclaim how they’re out that give me a chuckle.
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09-16-2020, 07:41 AM
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#757
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Taking a while to get to 5000
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TIL there are people that actually liked those chalky awful pellets.
Probably like those horrible molasses candies too!
Back on topic, I'm over the hiring, looking forward to the roster shaping now and especially interested in seeing what players are brought in to play the style of game he wants.
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09-16-2020, 07:48 AM
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#758
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kamloops
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
That's fair ... and I guess sample size has to be considered as well. When you are doing a ranking of 16 teams who play an average of what 12 games each in the post season it gets tough to nail down.
A hot goaltender and/or powerplay can cover a lot of warts.
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And, perhaps more importantly, throwing the puck at the net doesn't necessarily equal winning hockey.
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09-16-2020, 07:59 AM
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#759
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
I certainly think that is how Treliving wants to frame it. And with this ownership group and the Canadian market added pressure to be playing in tbe playoffs he may have a pretty good case. If I were Treliving I would definitely be preaching patience over the long run, and drawing from examples like Poile in contrast to the endless management debacle in Edmonton and Florida.
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That's the dichotomy here really. His moves seem rather impatient and not overly reminiscent of Poile's approach, from what I really know of it.
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09-16-2020, 08:10 AM
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#760
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
Used to? I am ashamed to admit that I may have at one time or another bought a big bag before Hallowe'en ...
... and never actually managed to distribute or share any of them.
Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
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Rookie. You buy them the day AFTER hallowe'en when they're on sale in 3kg bags. I usually buy three to last the year.
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